PTSB ptsb withdraws appeal to Supreme Court on trackers; CBI taking enforcement action

Status
Not open for further replies.

taldar

Frequent Poster
Messages
80
Yes I just got a mail from the FSO saying the bank will be in touch in the coming weeks to inform us if they are to redress the situation. If not the FSO can continue each case based on the evidence presented.

All I want is he money we have overpayed, our interest rate to drop to what it should be and compensation for all this stress over the years.

Thank you.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,699
Well done folks. You won!

Statement by permanent tsb Group




Thursday 5th February 2015. permanent tsb has advised the Supreme Court that it is withdrawing appeals to that Court which were scheduled for hearing on the 16th February next. The appeals were in respect of a High Court decision (August 2012) arising from two complaints that had been upheld by the Financial Services Ombudsman (FSO).



The issue relates to the position of four customers (two mortgages) who broke the term of their fixed mortgage rates early and who subsequently wanted to move to tracker rates. The fixed rate mortgages which these customers had been on included a provision that at the expiry of the fixed rate term the customers could revert to a tracker rate. However, as the customers had chosen to break the fixed rate term early, the bank did not permit them to revert to a tracker rate.



The FSO found that the bank had erred by not providing these customers at the time they decided to break the fixed term early with all material information about this consequence of breaking the fixed rate early.



The bank has communicated to the FSO its decision to withdraw the appeals to the Supreme Court. The bank has also indicated to the FSO that it wishes to review a number (circa 80) of similar complaints which the FSO has received, and on which the FSO has not issued a finding pending the outcome of the Supreme Court case.



Speaking today a spokesman for permanent tsb said that the bank was also reviewing how it had dealt with all cases of customers in similar positions (i.e.: mortgage customers who had a fixed rate product which included a right to move to a tracker rate at the end of the agreed fixed rate term but who lost that right because they broke from the fixed rate early).



The spokesman said this review will be concluded and any affected customers will be advised in writing if they are to receive redress as soon as possible. The spokesman also confirmed that this matter is subject to an ongoing enforcement investigation by the Central Bank and that the bank is engaging on this matter.



The bank has set up a dedicated line for customers who may have queries. The LoCall number is 1890 812 781 Monday – Friday, 09.00 – 17.30. Customers dialling from abroad should ring +353 1 2151343.
 
Last edited:

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,699
It's very important for those of you who had trackers with ptsb, who subsequently lost them, not to assume that you are going to get them back automatically.

The Ombudsman judges each case on its merits and has dismissed many complaints by ptsb customers who lost their trackers.

I have summarised the issues in these successful cases in the first five posts in this thread.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/high-court-upholds-ombudsmans-findings-against-ptsb-on-loss-of-tracker-mortgages.172318/

There is also a link to the High Court judgement. I will try to do another summary and FAQ
 
Last edited:

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,699
The FSO has released a statement

PRESS RELEASE



Subject: Supreme Court Appeals: Irish Life& Permanent plc t/a permanent tsb –v- Financial Services Ombudsman & Thomas & Healy

Thursday 5th February 2015

The Financial Services Ombudsman (FSO ) welcomes the withdrawal of these two linked appeals by Irish Life & Permanent plc t/a permanent tsb (IL&P) before the Supreme Court this morning. Both appeals were listed for hearing on the 16th February and concerned two of four linked High Court appeals brought by IL&P against a Judgment of the High Court on 3rd August 2012.

The High Court Judgment affirmed the Findings of the Ombudsman in both of these cases. The FSO had upheld the complaints from 2009/2010 where those particular customers of IL&P had switched out of tracker mortgages to a fixed rate and subsequently variable rates. When the customers sought to switch back to a tracker mortgage rate they were informed that they could not do so.

Following the withdrawal of the two Supreme Court appeals, the High Court Judgment remains in place. In particular, the Judgment broadly endorsed the approach of the FSO in these types of cases. The FSO will continue to adjudicate complaints on the basis of these standards and in the context of each individual complaint.

It is acknowledged that the process involved in arriving at the position today, has been a long and difficult one, particularly for the Complainants concerned as well as the many other mortgage holders who have submitted similar type complaints to the Financial Services Ombudsman’s Bureau (FSOB) against IL&P.

The FSOB looks forward to satisfactory closure for all such ongoing complaints as soon as reasonably possible. Each complaint will be dealt with on its individual merits and the FSOB remains committed to now progressing complaints of this nature in accordance with the High Court Judgment, where required.

The FSOB has written today to all affected Complainants to appraise them of the situation.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,699
Thanks taldar

Charlie Weston is reporting

"Up to 2,000 other Permanent TSB customers are understood to be in the same position, having been denied trackers. They now stand to be restored to their trackers and to get a windfall to make up for their losses over the last six years."

RTE says

Industry sources say the total number of customers affected is likely to be in the region of 2,000. The average cost to the bank is expected to be in the region of €10,000 to €15,000.
A €200k mortgage @ 4.5% instead of 1% would be €7,000 a year. If they have been overcharged for 5 years, that is €35,000. Without even considering the savings in future years.

Brendan
 
Last edited:

taldar

Frequent Poster
Messages
80
They owe us back approx 65k! Any thoughts on will there also be compensation?
 

gahfan

Frequent Poster
Messages
96
Heard Charlie Weston saying it when on with Matt Cooper on the way home from work earlier, great news though until we get written confirmation I'd be a bit cautious. Well done all for not giving up though.
 

Delboy

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,583
I have a mate down the country on a PTSB variable rate mortgage and they're struggling.
How would you know if you were 'denied' a tracker?
 

matan

Frequent Poster
Messages
68
Got email from FSO this evening stating the above and PTSB will be writing to us on individual cases. Wont believe it till i receive letter. 5 years later
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,699
I have a mate down the country on a PTSB variable rate mortgage and they're struggling.
How would you know if you were 'denied' a tracker?
First of all she had to be on a tracker at some stage.
Then she had to lose her tracker

If she never had one, she didn't lose it.

Get the information in detail from her and post it... in a new thread.

Brendan
 

random2011

Frequent Poster
Messages
170
Some PTSB customers had mortgages where they would have started out on day 1 with a 3 year Fixed rate and the contract would have stated that upon expiry of the fixed rate the loan would automatically switch to a tracker.

So would these customers also be affected by the ruling if they broke out of the fixed and subsequently did not get offered a tracker. Or does it specifically apply only to customers who on Day 1 had a tracker and then switched to Fixed, broke out and moved to a variable rate before the end of the 3 years.

I know when we took a mortgage with PTSB in 2006 we were looking at the tracker which was a margin of 1.15 at the time but the advise from the bank and broker was as we were young why not fix for three years and your tracker will be an option for you upon expiration. This was true but upon expiration the margin had increased to 3.25%. Problem for us was the 1.15% was not stated anywhere in the original contract. We went with SVR..and the rest is history
 

taldar

Frequent Poster
Messages
80
@shoppergal

Sit tight for a week or two and see what plays out. By the looks of it the CB has enforced this on ptsb and because of this I would say you are one of the 2000 this effects.
 

fuzzy10

Frequent Poster
Messages
149
Just heard it on newstalk 11pm news! Great news but I'm still cautious until I have the ruling in writing! Cant believe it....
 

bpw

Frequent Poster
Messages
24
Great news at last really hooe it works out for everyone. We had fixed rate and broke out of it early and went on svr. When i read my original contracts etc it stated tat at the end of fixed rate we would revert to tracker. Long story short we werent advised about loosing the tracker rate if we went on variable. We werent penalised either and just so everyone know when i questioned ptsb in my complaint about no penalty they wrote saying it was due to a system issue they had (ithink it was around jan - mar 2009) how coincidental lol. So i further complained that they never bovered telling us after either. Id say theres 1000s of customers that dont have a clue about ptsb mistreatment of there customers. Im awaiting fso decision on my case pending the supreme court ruling but as thats not happening fingers crossed
 

bpw

Frequent Poster
Messages
24
Also ptsb are saying its doing a review but is it not a case that they have had there opportunity to do there review hence the reason i went to the fso and am waiting hus judgement not a review from ptsb. Surely legally ptsb couldnt do that as its with the fso if you get me. Does anyone have any views on this
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,699
It's very important for those of you who had trackers with ptsb, who subsequently lost them, not to assume that you are going to get them back automatically.

The Ombudsman judges each case on its merits and has dismissed many complaints by ptsb customers who lost their trackers.

I have summarised the issues in these successful cases in the first five posts in this thread.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/high-court-upholds-ombudsmans-findings-against-ptsb-on-loss-of-tracker-mortgages.172318/

There is also a link to the High Court judgement. I will try to do another summary and FAQ
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top