PTSB PTSB - on expiry of fixed rate, tracker rate not specified

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
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150
I think the key issue is that the special condition on the Letter of Approval expressly stated that on expiry of the discount period "the then prevailing PTSB tracker rate will apply".

However PTSB wrote out a month before the end of the discount period stating: your current rate option is due to expire" and proceeded to offer a range of fixed rates a variable rate and a ramped up tracker margin.

Crucially, the options letter misled customers as NO RATE OPTION WAS EVER REFERRED TO ON THE SPECIAL CONDITION GOVERNING INTEREST RATE. Rather it stated: the then prevailing PTSB tracker rate WILL apply.

Cant see how any reference to an option in the wording on the contract.

Net result: Borrowers lured off a tracker on basis of a misleading "options" letter
 

Somar

Registered User
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32
No rate option in mine either from PTSB letter of approval in 2007 nor any mention of prevailing rate.

"On expiry of fixed rate, where applicant chooses tracker rate, interest rate applicable to the loan will be the tracker mortgage interest rate appropriate to the balance outstanding in the loan at the date of expiry of fixed rate. This rate at the date of fixed rate expiry may be varied in accordance with variations of the ECB refinancing rate"

Clearly no mention of a rate option there.
 

joe351980

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94
Somar, what you're contract says is that it may change in accordance with ECB.
This is a very good wording of a contract as it shows that PTSB expected the margin above ECB to remain the same. But advice you that the interest might change in line with ECB.
Very interesting
 

Somar

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32
That may well be the case Joe, but the margin above the ECB rate is not stated in the original letter of approval, so how does one know what that rate was and if it then in turn differs to the rate quoted above the ECB for tracker on expiry of fixed rate 2 years later.
 

joe351980

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94
I think that a collective approach of all contracts with similar wording, if brought together could show that PTSB were referencing their rate at time of writing up contract.
In some cases they quoted the rate at time of contract.

Some they used this rate to calculate what the discount was.

Most importantly in Somar case the say the interest rate might change in line with ECB.

Even though the margin isnt quoted it's clear PTSB are indicating that their margin is set for the life of the mortgage.
 

PFS7979

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150
Joe,

PTSB were certainly specofic saying the margin will be their "prevailing tracker rate".

But state on an "options letter" 11 months later that the current option would shortly expire.. that makes no sense and must be in breach of CPC on many levels.

Quite apart from that... to move from discounted margin of 0.75% to 3.25% stretches reasonable credibility... what other mortgage provider was offering a 2.5% initial discount on its rate for the first year? Again, must be a breach of CPC as they used their superior market knowledge to hoodwink customers into drawing down their mortgage.
 

ppcjbm

Registered User
Messages
8
Hi pp

There is no mention of trackers in the Consumer Credit Act.

View attachment 817

These notes simply refer to Housing Loans as defined by the Consumer Credit Act. And maybe they contain the information which is required to be disclosed by the Consumer Credit Act.

View attachment 818

But this note is interesting. "The amount of the percentage over the ECB rate...will not be exceeded during the term of the loan". I wonder if that note is on the back of the mortgages which do not have a rate specified.
Hi pp

There is no mention of trackers in the Consumer Credit Act.

View attachment 817

These notes simply refer to Housing Loans as defined by the Consumer Credit Act. And maybe they contain the information which is required to be disclosed by the Consumer Credit Act.

View attachment 818

But this note is interesting. "The amount of the percentage over the ECB rate...will not be exceeded during the term of the loan". I wonder if that note is on the back of the mortgages which do not have a rate specified.
I’ve noticed ptsb have stopped using this wording about the tracker margin on their correspondence letters.Have they realised this may be cause for concern on their idea of the prevailing rate issue?
 

Yaldi123

Registered User
Messages
2
Not sure if I have a case but I re mortgaged with PTSB in March 2007 (I had previously been with Ulster Bank) I availed of a 3 year fixed rate of 4.99% .Within my loan offer the “European Standardised Information Sheet” included the following information under the title “Nominal Rate”

"At the end of the fixed rate period you may exercise an option to move to the Standard Variable Rate or to a Tracker Mortgage Rate. If a Tracker Mortgage Rate is chosen the loan will become a Tracker Mortgage Loan and the rate applicable will be the rate appropriate to the balance outstanding on the loan at the time of expiry of the fixed rate period and as may be varied in accordance with variations to the ECB rate. THE PAYMENT RATES ON THIS HOUSING LOAN MAY BE ADJUSTED BY THE LENDER FROM TIME TO TIME (applies if a Standard Variable Rate or Tracker Rate is chosen)


Upon completion of my fixed rate term I contacted PTSB by phone to enquire about being put on a tracker rate only to be told that my options were Standard Variable Rate or Tracker Rate (ECB +3.25% afaik) however the margin to be applied to the latter was variable and at the discretion of PTSB and could be increased at any time throughout the term of the loan.From what I can remember the person in PTSB used the term “Variable Tracker Mortgage” (which didn't make sense)

Based on this information and these options I chose the Standard Variable Rate on the premise that A) it was cheaper and B) The way it was explained to me was that even if I chose the more expensive Tracker Mortgage PTSB had the discretion to increase the margin being charged above ECB throughout the term (similar to a SVR)

My issues are A) I was not given a fixed tracker rate on the original loan offer and B) I was basically missold/misled with the information I received from PTSB which I took as gospel at the time.

I initially called PTSB when the scandal broke in 2015 but was told I didn't have a case so I left it. Is there any point in pursuing this? thanks
 
W

Wardy7

Guest
Looks like you were given your options and made your choice? Albeit crappy choices??

I know that's not what you want to hear. Maybe give Padraic's office a call?
 

moneymakeover

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Messages
498
There's a school of thought that says you originally signed up for a tracker which logically had one course after the fix expiry.

The only reason for ptsb to offer a choice was to entice away your tracker. Sharp practice. This is what the central bank will hopefully be tackling.
 

robe

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Messages
68
Hi all.
Are we all to receive a final response letter automatically as to if we are or are not deemed impacted by the tracker mortgage rate review ?
 

Cmr270

Registered User
Messages
2
Hi yaldi123, I’m in the exact position as you, would be really interested to see how you get on!!
 

MaAo7381

Registered User
Messages
1
Hi all, I came across this thread trying to figure out if I'm affected or not by this whole thing! You may be able to shed light for me... I drew my Mortgage down in March 2008 on a discounted first time buyer tracker rate of 0.8%+ECB for the first year. I had the same terms in my contract as mentioned by some of you in previous comments. Basically I would be offered a tracker rate based on the current PTSB rates at the time so no specified percentage. My letter was issued the following year offering Tracker rate of ECB +2.25% along with fixed and variable rates, I don't know what they were at the time but I remember thinking the tracker rate was very high but chose it as the ECB rates were dropping.

I suspect I'm not affected as I went with the tracker rate offered to me... however, on PTSB website they mention they will be reviewing "Accounts ever on a higher tracker margin" - would this relate to people who were on a lower rate, went to a fixed but were only offered a higher rate once fixed terms matured? It's all very confusing!

I thought I would check here before I ring the bank because quite frankly I wouldn't trust them!

Thanks
 

joe351980

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Messages
94
I'd ask them what was your discount rate from. It couldn't be from +2.25% as that rate wasn't 'prevailing' at time of offer.
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
Messages
136
Hi new posters, Maao and Meath, you both seem to say you took out discounted tracker s, then rolled onto ECB +2.25. So not related to this thread on coming off fixed rates.

read Deck,77s post elsewhere on the central bank review forum

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/ptsb-1-year-discounted-tracker-they-have-put-me-back-on-the-right-rate.205647/

I have posted here about my case some time back, which is like yours, except I was told at the outset it was 0.6% for the 1st year , discounted from 0.8%. the discount was usually 0.2%. They wanted to put me on +2.25 but I chose variable as it was cheaper. Eventually moved bank. Have got nowhere with them yet.

If you are still with ptsb, and still on the higher Tracker rate, ring them. Deck77 did and he is now back
on the much lower undiscounted rate. PTSB were sorry for the"ERROR"!!!
 

robe

Frequent Poster
Messages
68
Hi all.
I presume by the lack of posts , that none of us on the 3.35 and 3.25 % above ecb are deemed as impacted.
What's the next step ?
Do we need to contact ptsb and ask for it in writing that we are not impacted?
 
W

Wardy7

Guest
Well my case is in the hands of @PadKiss

Frustrated doesn’t come close but I’m sure when there is news to be told, Padraic will be on!
 
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