PTSB PTSB - on expiry of fixed rate, tracker rate not specified

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,654
The definition of tracker mortage loan under the consumer credit act 1995 clearly states the amount of the percentage over the ecb rate will depend on the amount of the loan and that percentage will not be exceeded during the term of the loan.I'm not an expert by any standards but to me this seems to suggest that you margin should be what it was when the term of the mortgage began until the end .anyone else any thoughts?
Hi pp

There is no mention of trackers in the Consumer Credit Act.

upload_2015-8-30_17-10-22.png


These notes simply refer to Housing Loans as defined by the Consumer Credit Act. And maybe they contain the information which is required to be disclosed by the Consumer Credit Act.

upload_2015-8-30_17-11-54.png


But this note is interesting. "The amount of the percentage over the ECB rate...will not be exceeded during the term of the loan". I wonder if that note is on the back of the mortgages which do not have a rate specified.
 

random2011

Frequent Poster
Messages
170
Hi pp

There is no mention of trackers in the Consumer Credit Act.

View attachment 817

These notes simply refer to Housing Loans as defined by the Consumer Credit Act. And maybe they contain the information which is required to be disclosed by the Consumer Credit Act.

View attachment 818

But this note is interesting. "The amount of the percentage over the ECB rate...will not be exceeded during the term of the loan". I wonder if that note is on the back of the mortgages which do not have a rate specified.
This is exactly what is on my original loan Offer.it is also stated again on my options letter upon expiry of the fixed. It's actually on the back of the documentation if I remember. I had no margin specified and was Offered 3.25 in 09 but choose svr as it was cheaper that month.
 

ppcjbm

Registered User
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8
Hi Brendan

Thanks for posting that.
I had no rate specified in my contract and I have that note on any correspondence with ptsb on the back of the first page.I keep all there letters so i have about 20 or 30 copies of that exact wording
 

ella

Registered User
Messages
22
Hi all.
Just off the phone from Permanent T.S.B. . I am still waiting on the calculations that i requested over 3 weeks ago of how they came up with this tracker rate of 3.25% + ecb. My loan to value is 58%. I was told it would be another two weeks before calculations will be available to post. This just goes to show that the rate of 3.25% was just plucked out of thin air.
Typical of this Bank.
 
Last edited:

George13

Registered User
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21
I don't think it was plucked out of thin air. If you look at what PTSB's variable rate was when we should have finished our fixed term and deduct from it the ECB rate at that time you should get the 3.25% margin. This is the usual way of calculating what the margin should be but contractually where a rate is not specified at the outset as far as I know they can pluck a rate out of thin air if they want to.
 

random2011

Frequent Poster
Messages
170
I don't think it was plucked out of thin air. If you look at what PTSB's variable rate was when we should have finished our fixed term and deduct from it the ECB rate at that time you should get the 3.25% margin. This is the usual way of calculating what the margin should be but contractually where a rate is not specified at the outset as far as I know they can pluck a rate out of thin air if they want to.
In Nov 2009 the ECB was 1%.
PTSB SVR was 3.69%
Our tracker rate offered was 4.25% in other words 3.25% + 1%

So are you saying the rate should have ECB + 2.69% to match PTSB's SVR.
 

ppcjbm

Registered User
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8
TAKEN FROM MY CONTRACT WITH PTSB

Special Condition A.
General mortgage loan approval condition 5 conditions relating to fixed rate loans applies in this case. The interest rate specified above May vary before the date of issue of the loan. On expiry of the fixed rate period, and where the applicant chooses the option of a tracker mortgage interest rate, the interest rate applicable to the loan will be the tracker mortgage rate appropriate to the balance outstanding on the loan at the date of expiry of the fixed rate period.

So what exactly does that mean "appropriate to the balance outstanding on the loan at the date of expiry of the fixed rate period" . It does not sound like it is appropriate to what the bank feel they can apply, it does not sound like it is related to the ECB rate at that time and it does not sound like it is appropriate to the banks cost of funds/wholesale lending/strategic defaulters costing the banks etc etc

If I complete the fixed period which I did then the balance should be what was expected when we started the fixed period 3 years earlier. If anything the rate could be lower than the margins offered at the beginning of the fixed rate.
Hi pp

There is no mention of trackers in the Consumer Credit Act.

View attachment 817

These notes simply refer to Housing Loans as defined by the Consumer Credit Act. And maybe they contain the information which is required to be disclosed by the Consumer Credit Act.

View attachment 818

But this note is interesting. "The amount of the percentage over the ECB rate...will not be exceeded during the term of the loan". I wonder if that note is on the back of the mortgages which do not have a rate specified.
Would be interesting to see how ptsb would respond to these arguments or how they would be viewed in a legal capacity
 

George13

Registered User
Messages
21
In Nov 2009 the ECB was 1%.
PTSB SVR was 3.69%
Our tracker rate offered was 4.25% in other words 3.25% + 1%

So are you saying the rate should have ECB + 2.69% to match PTSB's SVR.
Yes but you might want to double check your rates - I am not familiar with rates applicable to those dates
 

Thomas

Frequent Poster
Messages
83
Has anyone heard if the PTSB are going to give in on the "prevailing rate" fight or is this still going to have to go to the courts?
 

Somar

Registered User
Messages
32
There is still no indication from PTSB on this as far as I'm aware, but PTSB will have to give in on this, no doubt.
"Manufactured rates" as I would call them were a major player in wrongly denying customers of their entitlement to tracker mortgages.
Squeeze is on PTSB now and the corner they are backing into is getting smaller by the day.
 

elbo

Registered User
Messages
22
lets hope u are right Somar, did anyone hear Masding on the news i missed it? Wonder was the prevailing rate issue brought up with his meeting today with the finance minister, lets flood mr Donoghue tomorrow with a few emails......anyone??
 

elbo

Registered User
Messages
22
paschal.donohoe@oireachtas.ie done and done! Lets get this party started people!! Just look way back when this conversation was started and we are still tuning in to get some info. But the pressure on, take it to the top.... the more emails he gets the more answers he will have to seek, i honestly dont know what i'll do with my time if i dont have to check in here every so often to see whats happening ....
 

Thomas

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Messages
83
sent an email and got this response - send all emails to his other email address below:

"Thank you for your email.

However, this address is for constituency case work only.

Should your query relate to my work as Minister for Finance ......, please email me at
minister@finance.gov.ie ...

Regards,


Paschal"
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
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150
Padraic Kissane spoke brilliantly on this issue on the Pat Kenny show this morning. He is doing superb work for not alone his own clients but by extension for everybody effected... well done and thankyou Mr Kissane
 

Thomas

Frequent Poster
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83
The concern is that if he has to still talk about this issue today that implies PTSB are not prepared to budge on the point and so a group of us who have this problem could get left behind!
 
W

Wardy7

Guest
Although the CB did say that we are, as in our rate issue, being included/investigated. Still hope!
 

elbo

Registered User
Messages
22
I got the same reply from that email, so helpful eh? Could
They not have forwarded for us. Re sent to minister email.
 
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