I took my case to ombudsmen and failed in 2009, but it was a different regulator then, and they didn't really get the point of my case being mis selling, misadvising, etc. I think I might have done better if I had Padraic representing me, and will if I go again. Really looking forward to hearing outcome from your cases. The new regulator is better but I still think having expert help with presenting the case could help. Best of luck. Thanks for update. Are you both in arrears? Is that why the mortgage has been sold on ?
PTSB PTSB 1 year discounted tracker - Central Bank has deemed them not impacted.
- Thread starter PFS7979
- Start date
Old threads can be a good source of information
This one is interesting with one poster suggesting that the rate would go to a standard rate after the discounted period
https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/what-to-expect-at-end-of-discounted-tracker-period.87255/
This one is interesting with one poster suggesting that the rate would go to a standard rate after the discounted period
https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/what-to-expect-at-end-of-discounted-tracker-period.87255/
That was mid 2008. But in early/mid 2007 such a question didn't exist as the rate reverted to the undiscounted rate. That is my main issue. They changed the terms in late 2007 without changing the name of the product. .......... Now if it had been called a "one year or two year tracker" then you might expect it to revert to the SVR........or a rate of your choosing from a list of options.....
I went through Padric Kissane's office on this initially and I know that after the Central Bank's finding he said he's be in contact about the next steps we might be able to carry out. As of yet I haven't got any news from his office. Anybody else in the same boat? I'm just concerned for the fact it is a few months since the findings and I don't want to leave it too much longer before I go further with this.
Hi,
My situation is very similar to Core123 and meepman. I drew down on a “2 Year Discount Tracker (ECB + MAX 0.99%) Home Loan” in May 2007.
The variance in the documentation is interesting, for comparison, the relevant sections in my contract documents read:
LETTER OF APPROVAL – PARTICULARS OF MORTGAGE LOAN:
Special Condition E: On expiry of the discount period the applicant will have the option of switching to a fixed rate (if available) or to the tracker mortgage rate available, at the time of expiry of the discount period, to the amount of the loan originally advanced.
EUROPEAN STANDARDISED INFORMATION SHEET:
Page 1: On expiry of the Discount Period you may exercise an option to contract for a fixed rate period (if available) or move to a Tracker Mortgage Rate, applicable at the time of expiry, to the amount of the loan originally advanced.
In May 2009 I received a letter from PTSB that opened with “I am writing to remind you that the current rate option on your mortgage account will end on 22-May-2009”.
The same rate options as posted in other threads were available for selection. The Tracker Variable Rate was offered at 3.5% and of course they also had their then “tempting” LTV Variable Rate at 3.4%. I remained on the Tracker rate.
The info asterisk associated with the Tracker Variable reads: The interest rate that applies to this Tracker Mortgage Loan will never be more than 2.25% over the European Central Bank Refinancing Rate.
I have not pursued this with anyone as of yet. I suppose I’m left wondering how PTSB calculated the rate after exiting the discount period (discounted from what ). Are they obliged to answer such a question?
My situation is very similar to Core123 and meepman. I drew down on a “2 Year Discount Tracker (ECB + MAX 0.99%) Home Loan” in May 2007.
The variance in the documentation is interesting, for comparison, the relevant sections in my contract documents read:
LETTER OF APPROVAL – PARTICULARS OF MORTGAGE LOAN:
Special Condition E: On expiry of the discount period the applicant will have the option of switching to a fixed rate (if available) or to the tracker mortgage rate available, at the time of expiry of the discount period, to the amount of the loan originally advanced.
EUROPEAN STANDARDISED INFORMATION SHEET:
Page 1: On expiry of the Discount Period you may exercise an option to contract for a fixed rate period (if available) or move to a Tracker Mortgage Rate, applicable at the time of expiry, to the amount of the loan originally advanced.
In May 2009 I received a letter from PTSB that opened with “I am writing to remind you that the current rate option on your mortgage account will end on 22-May-2009”.
The same rate options as posted in other threads were available for selection. The Tracker Variable Rate was offered at 3.5% and of course they also had their then “tempting” LTV Variable Rate at 3.4%. I remained on the Tracker rate.
The info asterisk associated with the Tracker Variable reads: The interest rate that applies to this Tracker Mortgage Loan will never be more than 2.25% over the European Central Bank Refinancing Rate.
I have not pursued this with anyone as of yet. I suppose I’m left wondering how PTSB calculated the rate after exiting the discount period (discounted from what ). Are they obliged to answer such a question?
I just done some more digging. Given the language in my contact, I don't think I have a straight up case for a lower rate.
Not that it matters in my case but does anyone know if PTSB published their margin(s) above the ECB? There doesn't appear to be any consistency with the tracking rates that were being offered between 2006 - 2008. Judging from the links below they knew the writing was on the wall and probably upped their rate multiple times before my discount period ended in May-2009.
2008 Press Release: "link removed - not enough posts"
Through March and April conditions in wholesale credit markets deteriorated reversing the improvement seen at the start of the year. In response to the increase in funding costs the bank has further increased rates on a range of lending products, including tracker and standard variable rate mortgages, in addition to raising its minimum credit criteria. These mortgage rate increases together with higher liability spreads will help mitigate the impact of the increased funding costs on the bank's net interest margin.
ECB + Max 1.68% as of Dec-2008 ("link removed - not enough posts")
Not that it matters in my case but does anyone know if PTSB published their margin(s) above the ECB? There doesn't appear to be any consistency with the tracking rates that were being offered between 2006 - 2008. Judging from the links below they knew the writing was on the wall and probably upped their rate multiple times before my discount period ended in May-2009.
2008 Press Release: "link removed - not enough posts"
Through March and April conditions in wholesale credit markets deteriorated reversing the improvement seen at the start of the year. In response to the increase in funding costs the bank has further increased rates on a range of lending products, including tracker and standard variable rate mortgages, in addition to raising its minimum credit criteria. These mortgage rate increases together with higher liability spreads will help mitigate the impact of the increased funding costs on the bank's net interest margin.
ECB + Max 1.68% as of Dec-2008 ("link removed - not enough posts")
Interesting article. Same boat as I am in although mine was a 2 year discounted tracker. At least it's still in the public eye. https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/tracker-ripoff-cost-me-40000-and-bank-hasnt-seen-last-of-me-38169208.html
Hi. Almost exactly the same as my situation.
But as my loan has been sold to glenbeigh / pepper do i still have the argument to obtain the tracker rate I should be entitled to with compensation? I am currently on 2.25%. I asked same question in another thread and also to padraic kissane
Regards
But as my loan has been sold to glenbeigh / pepper do i still have the argument to obtain the tracker rate I should be entitled to with compensation? I am currently on 2.25%. I asked same question in another thread and also to padraic kissane
Regards
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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The sale of your loan does not affect your legal rights in any way.
If you were not entitled to a lower rate,then you are still not entitled to a lower rate.
If you were entitled to a lower rate,then you are still entitled to it.
Brendan
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 38,133
Hi folks
You got a mention in the Sunday Times editorial
www.thetimes.co.uk
One group of Permanent TSB customers has been treated especially badly. They lost out solely because they succumbed to the attractions of a 12-month discount on their tracker margin. If they had ignored the discount, they would still have their trackers. Incredibly, the examination concluded they had not been affected by the scandal. This blocks any right of appeal to the financial services ombudsman, a natural recourse for others dissatisfied with the outcome of the examination. On balance, however, the process must be seen as a victory for consumers. Banks might argue in private they were legally entitled to remove tracker mortgages from their customers. If homeowners had been forced to seek justice through the courts, most would have walked away empty-handed. The Central Bank’s examination held the banks to a different standard, though, forcing them to review their past behaviour from the perspective of equity and fairness rather than strict legal obligations. Through this lens, their conduct was indefensible.
You got a mention in the Sunday Times editorial
All-island port checks harbour fresh hope in backstop impasse
With Boris Johnson set to become Britain’s prime minister this week, the UK is on course to depart from the EU in just 102 days. Even allowing for the fact that Mr Johnson has credibility issues...
www.thetimes.co.uk
One group of Permanent TSB customers has been treated especially badly. They lost out solely because they succumbed to the attractions of a 12-month discount on their tracker margin. If they had ignored the discount, they would still have their trackers. Incredibly, the examination concluded they had not been affected by the scandal. This blocks any right of appeal to the financial services ombudsman, a natural recourse for others dissatisfied with the outcome of the examination. On balance, however, the process must be seen as a victory for consumers. Banks might argue in private they were legally entitled to remove tracker mortgages from their customers. If homeowners had been forced to seek justice through the courts, most would have walked away empty-handed. The Central Bank’s examination held the banks to a different standard, though, forcing them to review their past behaviour from the perspective of equity and fairness rather than strict legal obligations. Through this lens, their conduct was indefensible.
I would urge all in this cohort to carefully read the Special Condition regarding application of interest rate on their contract. Was the SC silent on rate options or a requirement to make a further rate selection after the discount period? Did you then receive a "rate options letter" 11 months into your mortgage referring to a "rate option" about to "expire".
Hugely important in my opinion. Regardless of the inflated margin they came up with.... I believe there are many instances where "rate options letters" should never have issued (they used a lower SVR to remove people from tracker).
Hugely important in my opinion. Regardless of the inflated margin they came up with.... I believe there are many instances where "rate options letters" should never have issued (they used a lower SVR to remove people from tracker).
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 38,133
I think that the argument that the product name should override the small print is a strong argument.
I see little merit in this argument. This options letter gave you the choice of the tracker rate or a fixed rate or the default if you did nothing.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 38,133
Brendan,
FSPO have outlined some very specific and challenging queries to PTSB focussing on the contradictions between the contract and the wording of the rate options letter.
Documents such as these, given their gravity and importance should be accurate and consistent with one another.
Cheers
PFS.
FSPO have outlined some very specific and challenging queries to PTSB focussing on the contradictions between the contract and the wording of the rate options letter.
Documents such as these, given their gravity and importance should be accurate and consistent with one another.
Cheers
PFS.