PTSB PTSB 1 year discounted tracker - Central Bank has deemed them not impacted.

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by PFS7979, 18 Sep 2018.

  1. PFS7979

    PFS7979 Frequent Poster

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    Hi @core123 ... so communication has issued from P Kissane confirming Central Bank Review are deeming "discounted tracker cohort" not impacted... effectively upholding PTSB stance that there was no price promise as to what tracker margin would apply from year 2 onward.

    I remain steadfast in my opinion that aside from that issue, customers in this cohort should not have had "rate options" letters issued to them in month 11. The contract was explicit: the then current PTSB Tracker rate was to apply after 12 months.

    Onto the FSO.
     
  2. DeeMc2017

    DeeMc2017 Registered User

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    Just read that email. Very disappointing for everyone involved
     
  3. LTL1234

    LTL1234 Registered User

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    Very disappointing..... I really dont understand how they have sided with PTSB on this. The title of the mortgage 'Discounted Tracker' without stating what the actual discount is immediately breaks the consumer code of conduct, that is before you even get to the individual mortgage clauses or the argument of 11 month offer letters. Is there any point in going to the FSO??
     
  4. core123

    core123 Frequent Poster

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    Gutted to say the least. I'm not sure what I should do now. Is the FSO an option or is it going to end in more disappointed. Very disillusioned tonight
     
  5. PFS7979

    PFS7979 Frequent Poster

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    May I ask people to check the wording on their Letter of Offer. Did it state u would revert to the ptsb tracker rate after 12 months? Did u in fact receive an "options letter" after 11 months stating that ur rate option was due to expire and offering u a host of rates including a misleading low varisble rate?

    I have had independent opinion on this supporting my view that ptsb mishandled my account. This is seperate to a (reasonable) understanding that a 12 month discount margin in 2008 must have related to a reasonable expectation that a longer term margin would bare some comparison... but it seems ptsb have successfully argued they never gave a price promise beyond year 1.

    That being said: their contract stated the tracker rate would apply from year 2 (regardless of what margin).
     
  6. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    This is very disappointing. I have no idea how the CB arrived at this conclusion.

    But, don't lose heart. The Central Bank does not make the decision - the Court and the Ombudsman do.

    Has anyone taken this case to the Ombudsman?
    Is it on hold?

    In my view, you need to all get together. One should go to the Ombudsman, and the rest should issue legal action, with one of you being a pathfinder.

    The decision not to give you guys trackers at the rate "from which it was discounted" is perverse.

    The name of the product should take precedence over the contractual terms.

    Brendan
     
  7. core123

    core123 Frequent Poster

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    I'm not sure if anyone has gone to the FSO. I haven't anyway yet. Just wished that I took the ecb rate at the time instead of the discount rate which over the 2 years saved me about 500 euros but in reality has cost me nearly 40k
     
  8. LTL1234

    LTL1234 Registered User

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    @core123 I was never even offered an ECB tracker rate only the discounted tracker rate. Obviously none of us could forsee being shafted out of the tracker rate. Like you it has cost me c. 40k.
     
  9. PFS7979

    PFS7979 Frequent Poster

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    My file is with FSO. I have centred my complaint on the misleading options letter and wording contained therein as compared to the original contract.

    I appreciate this is a different issue to horrendous way these contracts were missold as "discounted trackers".
     
    core123 likes this.
  10. WizardDr

    WizardDr Frequent Poster

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    The FSOP would be a case by case basis. One would want to be careful though for the way the FSOP will work is that you have to effectively lay out your arguments. There are several about the Discounted Tracker. For my money I would pay Mr Kissane to put my case forward. Bear in mind that FSOP had a 10% uphold ratio whereas Mr Kissane was in excess of 75%. The advantage of FSOP is no risk of costs being awarded against you.

    On Court people would need to pony up as the Chief Justice Mr Frank Clark has pointedly said that access to the Courts is limited to those with money or those on legal aid and he has challenged the Government. Challenges need to be cold and calculated and again Padraic Kissane should be the chief witness. This needs to be funded.
     
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  11. todo

    todo Frequent Poster

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    This is disappointing, the effected folks need to join together and take this to the courts.
     
  12. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Those affected need to group together, whether through Padraic or not.

    One good case should be argued with the ptsb Appeals Panel, if it is not too late.

    One good case needs to be argued with the FSO.

    And if both are lost, then they can decide whether to go to the High Court or not.

    While the FSO does each case on a case by case basis, with no precedent, they now group similar cases together and establish principles. For example, they might conclude "Calling a product a discounted tracker does not imply anything at all.". That principle would apply to other cases so all other cases where that is the only issue would be dismissed promptly.

    Brendan
     
  13. OPTI

    OPTI Registered User

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    Some of us are grouped together already I thought with padraic kissane although waiting to hear what’s nxt
     
  14. core123

    core123 Frequent Poster

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    Yeah i'm with Padraic Kissane as well. He has said he'll be in contact over the next couple of weeks to discuss what would be the best route of action for my own case.
     
  15. zibra82

    zibra82 Registered User

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    Hi All

    Just got email from Padriac ...really disappointed with the outcome of CB investigation...what else we can do... anyone has an idea ..anyone tried with MOBS
     
  16. meepman

    meepman Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: 24 Sep 2018
    I asked PTSB directly in written form last year what the discounted tracker rate I was on for 1 year was discounted from. The reply I got just last week was 'I attach a copy of the rates applicable at the time your mortgage was issued' Guess what, there were no rates attached. I will be replying where the attachment is.
     
    Last edited: 24 Sep 2018
    Apples82 likes this.
  17. core123

    core123 Frequent Poster

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    Bee nthinking about this since we got the email from Padraic Kissane's office. I know the 2 options outlined in the email were to forget it and move on or go through the FSO and if needs be the courts. I still think we have been wronged here and despite the Central Banks recommendation I do believe we have a very strong case. I am going to talk to Padraic Kissane over the next few weeks ot see what the best route is for myself but I do feel I should go all the way with this.
     
  18. WizardDr

    WizardDr Frequent Poster

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    Just to be clear, I don't think the CBI 'signed off' PTSB as it were.
    1. CBI claimed that despite all the legislation that they did not have the powers to force at bank to restore trackers prior to 2013.
    2. CBI therefore presented cohorts of similar fact cases to each and every Bank.
    3. Some were so shockingly obvious that they were agreed fairly quickly.
    4. Others were argued at length and eventually some Banks decided that based on some measure of fairness, they conceded.
    5. Others dug their heels in and PTSB is one of these. Despite the various arguments on Discounted Tracker that should have killed PTSB stone dead, they simply resisted and to use barrack room slang it was 'foxtrot oscar' to CBI.
    6. But this possibility was well flagged by CBI already.
    7. Why are we surprised with the judicial criticism in many cases ad nauseam where several judges made excoriating criticism of PTSB.
    8. PTSB obviously believe that none of you will fess up and allow Mr Kissane (for it is he who seems to have most knowledge on this) to give them a severe bloody nose.
    9. The other issue that emerges from this is that compared to UK when they implemented Unfair Terms in Contract, it was simply this in the UK Supreme Court "...my conclusion that the non-disclosure of the amount of the commissions made Paragon's relationship with Mrs Plevin unfair is enough to justify the reopening of the transaction.." and that was PPI in the bin.
    10. So what we should be saying to PTSB "..well punk, do you feel lucky?.."
     
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  19. Stitcher

    Stitcher Frequent Poster

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    Anybody taken any further action since the announcement? FPSO or court?
     
  20. PFS7979

    PFS7979 Frequent Poster

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    Mine with FSPO office... PTSB rejected opportunity to enter mediation