Nutters in Knock

[Caveat]

I find our politicians a national embarassment
I find our ill and elderly left lying on trollies in A&E Units a national embarassment
I find our binge drinkers vomitting all over the street and clogging up aforementioned A&E Units a national embarassment
I find our thugs beating up old people for a few hundred euro a national embarassment

There are many things that make me embarassed for this Country. A couple of hundred people standing in a field, harming no one with their spiritual beliefs or searches is not one of them, to be quite honest.

I think that's a bit unfair Liaconn.

Obviously there are far far worse things going on in this country.

The things you mention far exceed 'embarrassment' in any sense of the word. They are a disgrace.

 

[truthseeker]

Is false belief harmless or dangerous?

 

[Pique318]

Imagine if one of these loolahs told you that he/she was staring at the sun in the sky and it turned blue in honour of St. Mary. Then imagine that same person said "and the operation is a small one whereby I crack open your ribs, slow down your heart until it stops and then insert this little beauty".

Or perhaps this one "Your son is doing well in school. He has promise. He is a happy little fella, almost as happy as I was last week when the sun danced around in the sky and God sent rays forth as I sign to us all".

I am with Caveat. You'd have to be mad or stupid to believe any of it. Possibly both.

LOL Brilliant !!

 

[liaconn]

Is false belief harmless or dangerous?

But everyone thinks that people who believe something that they don't has a false belief. People who believe in God would think that those who believe there is no God have a false belief.

 

[Pique318]

and based on the evidence, they would be wrong.

 

[truthseeker]

But everyone thinks that people who believe something that they don't has a false belief. People who believe in God would think that those who believe there is no God have a false belief.

Theres no evidence for the existance of a god. So the believers are believing in something they can never prove. Do you think positive belief in something you can never prove is dangerous?

I realise one cannot prove there is NO god either, but thats a negative belief, people who dont hold a belief in god dont try to do things in the name of 'no god'.

 

[Caveat]

But everyone thinks that people who believe something that they don't has a false belief.

But the big difference with Knock is that it can quite easily be shown that there is or was nothing there to believe in. So it is false belief. They are entitled to it, but is is simply erroneous.

 

[liaconn]

Theres no evidence for the existance of a god. So the believers are believing in something they can never prove. Do you think positive belief in something you can never prove is dangerous?

I realise one cannot prove there is NO god either, but thats a negative belief, people who dont hold a belief in god dont try to do things in the name of 'no god'.

In fairness, there are Countries where people are severely punished, or even killed, for openly practising their religion. I think, in the end, it comes down to tolerance and not abusing and twisting your religious beliefs to control others (as of course happened here in Ireland and I accept that).

 

[Purple]

While I do think they are all a bit mad to be staring at the sky, thinking they are seeing the sun wave and them or whatever, I would defend their right to do it. That’s the great thing about a democracy; you have the right to be stupid, believe in stupid things and even do stupid things as long as you don’t damage others or seek to limit their rights.

That said I saw my doctor down, a big happy head on him, gormlessly staring at the sky, there’s no way I’d take medical advice from him again.

 

[MrMan]

Fair enough MrMan, live and let live - of course.

But I think "... accepting that we are not all alike" and the use of the word "theories" is being overly generous to the sensibilities of these people.

They are deluded, plain and simple - do you not agree?

I don't think it's harmless either - presumably at least some of these people have kids and in the 21st century I don't think it's at all healthy for them to grow up believing it is normal to see 'apparitions' or whatever.

Yes, the sensible thing to do is ignore them and I perfectly understand the need for some people to see things like this - but if I'm honest, as I've said, I find it a national embarrassment.

No I don't agree. To say they are deluded plain and simple seems to suggest that you have answers that are very black and white to age old discussions that have never been proven on either side.
Kids believing in apparitions would hardly lead them down a dark path. As has been said before Santa and the tooth fairy are as logical as god to yourself and other posters yet you don't see any harm in giving them something to look forward to?

RE: national embarrassment, I still can't see how this would make you squirm in front of your friends, being embarrassed about other peoples belief systems makes no sense.

 

[truthseeker]

That said I saw my doctor down, a big happy head on him, gormlessly staring at the sky, there’s no way I’d take medical advice from him again.

His ability as a doctor might not be influenced by his religious beliefs though?

I know it sounds patronising and Im going to be slated for it but I do feel that if an adult has a genuine belief in god I find it difficult to respect their intelligence.
That said, I would defend their right to such a belief.
But I would view them in the same manner I would if an adult told me that they genuinely believed in Santa Claus (or any other imaginary being).

 

[truthseeker]

Kids believing in apparitions would hardly lead them down a dark path. As has been said before Santa and the tooth fairy are as logical as god to yourself and other posters yet you don't see any harm in giving them something to look forward to?

But kids stop believing in such things as they grow up and the adults tell them its false.

 

[liaconn]

I know it sounds patronising and Im going to be slated for it but I do feel that if an adult has a genuine belief in god I find it difficult to respect their intelligence.

I believe in God and I have a fairly high IQ, a Masters degree and a responsible job. I know lots of people who believe in God who are incredibly intelligent. In fact, as the majority of people over a certain age in this country probably believe in God, where does that leave things?

Of course I know people of low intelligence who believe in God. But I also know people of low intelligence who don't believe in him.

ps I don't believe in Santa and have an open mind on the tooth fairy.

 

[truthseeker]

I believe in God and I have a fairly high IQ, a Masters degree and a responsible job. I know lots of people who believe in God who are incredibly intelligent. In fact, as the majority of people over a certain age in this country probably believe in God, where does that leave things?

Yes, Im torn on this issue because I do know plenty of otherwise intelligent people who believe - but I just find it difficult to reconcile it within myself that they CAN believe, given their obvious intelligence and the wealth of rational arguments against existance, and the lack of rational arguments for.

I just dont get it. Perhaps its a failing on my part?

 

[Caveat]

Hang on now - belief or not in God is one thing.

People believing that they observed magical or supernatural solar activity, for whatever reason, when they didn't, is something else entirely.

They may want to see these things, they may think they saw these things - but they didn't.

Just checking, is anyone actually arguing otherwise?

 

[Purple]

hang on now - belief or not in god is one thing.

People believing that they observed magical or supernatural solar activity, for whatever reason, when they didn't, is something else entirely.

They may want to see these things, they may think they saw these things - but they didn't.

Just checking, is anyone actually arguing otherwise?

+1

 

[MrMan]

Imagine if one of these loolahs told you that he/she was staring at the sun in the sky and it turned blue in honour of St. Mary. Then imagine that same person said "and the operation is a small one whereby I crack open your ribs, slow down your heart until it stops and then insert this little beauty".

Or perhaps this one "Your son is doing well in school. He has promise. He is a happy little fella, almost as happy as I was last week when the sun danced around in the sky and God sent rays forth as I sign to us all".

I am with Caveat. You'd have to be mad or stupid to believe any of it. Possibly both.

What if the doctor said 'you may as well stop praying as there is no god you deluded loolah, just accept you will be in the ground soon', the teacher saying 'your son is scoring top of the class but i think he is stupid and deluded as i caught him praying before an exam yesterday'.

you see mad and stupid, i just see petty intolerance.

 

[liaconn]

Hang on now - belief or not in God is one thing.

People believing that they observed magical or supernatural solar activity, for whatever reason, when they didn't, is something else entirely.

They may want to see these things, they may think they saw these things - but they didn't.

Just checking, is anyone actually arguing otherwise?

I don't believe, on this occasion, that anything happened and I'm sure the Catholic Church don't either. This just seems to be a bit of mass hysteria by people searching for something or looking for some reassurance. But, to go back to my original point, I don't see any harm in it as long as Brian Lenihan wasn't down there deciding if he saw a blue light he was going to do 'x' with the budget and if he saw a white light he was going to do 'y'.

By the way, if I saw him in the Church praying the night before the budget I would have no problem with that. I often say a prayer myself if I have to make a difficult decision.

 

[MrMan]

Is false belief harmless or dangerous?

Well does my belief in God harm you or me? How is my belief dangerous? I just say I believe, I don't say you are stupid or deluded for not believing, which to me is dangerous as it is provocative language.

 

[truthseeker]

Well does my belief in God harm you or me? How is my belief dangerous? I just say I believe, I don't say you are stupid or deluded for not believing, which to me is dangerous as it is provocative language.

Probably not currently, but there are MANY occasions where harm IS done.
I never said anyone was stupid, but it is my opinion they are deluded - however, I did say, I would defend their right to that delusion.