Northern Rock bailed out by Bank of England

I also had the thought when listening to Mervyn King that if he had money in NR he would have at the top of the Q. He certainly nailed the view that we all just followed our herd instinct in taking our money out.

He made a great case why we were right to panic.
 
I also had the thought when listening to Mervyn King that if he had money in NR he would have at the top of the Q. He certainly nailed the view that we all just followed our herd instinct in taking our money out.

He made a great case why we were right to panic.
I know we're strayng precipitously off-topic, but you get the feeling that he knew there would be a run on the bank and that he knew it would bring it down to earth and that he sort of approves of that, now that retail depositors are safe.
 
Godfather,

Can you get yourself to Harcourt St. in Dublin?

I phoned NR last Sunday and was told I'd have my money transferred to my account by yesterday or today by the latest. I phoned this morning and they took all my details again and said it was being marked as urgent but that it would take 3-4 working days from now to get my money! This is what I was told 3-4 working days ago.

Anyway, I went to the NR office on Harcourt St. today, filled in a withdrawal form immediately on arriving, went away to get some lunch and returned to collect my cheque 50 minutes later. No queue, no waiting. I couldn't afford to wait any longer due to the fact that I have a builder starting today and need to pay him 1st instalment very shortly.
 
For anyone that has been trying, with no success, to login to their NR account today, I have just now managed to login again. Earlier I wasn't even getting to the login prompt.
 
Exactly my sentiments. Their website has consistently been the slowest of any I know and it's continued non ability to cope with the increased traffic has turned into a debacle that has contributed heavily to the growing panic as the days went by. After having been conveniently "locked" out of my account as have others for "alleged" incorrect password entries over the weekend, I have just today received my new one per snail mail and guess what? ... website still can't handle my logons ...been trying continuously for hours with IE & FFox simultaneously and continuously refreshing logons etc etc. ...Bye Bye NR!!!
Just to compound matters further to the point of the bizarre, I finally got to the logon screens with my new password and after answering all the security Q's was then informed that my psw had been successfully changed and a new new one would be sent to me per post !!!(or something similar)...deja vu or what? I managed for the 1st time ever to get an answer from the 01 480 6050 number, and the guy says that the website wasn't able to handle the new psw logon cause they've been upgrading it so much recently and that I'd again have to wait for another new one to arrive by post.. but would I first give them a call b4 I try to logon next time in case it still wasn't working correctly then??? ...You bet I will, just wonder will the phone lines be working that day though!!
 
Is it correct to say that it takes 3-4 days before your 'pending transaction' becomes a completed transaction, and then another 3-4 days before it actually shows up in your bank account? Or is it immediately in your bank account one NR completes the transaction at it's end?
 
He made a great case why we were right to panic.[/quote]

I think the panic becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. If everyone follows the herd to the bank, of course the bank will be in trouble
I am sure if everyone went to AIB tommorow and asked for there money back, they would be in trouble too
 
I had received a call this morning from NR in Dublin and the guy told me to ring him if when I tried my password it didn't work. At that stage I hadn't received my post.

In fact 2 new passwords arrived - with different use by dates. I used the most recent and I was still told that my account was locked. So then I tried the other. Same response.

So I rang him after my failed attempts and while I had his undivided attention I asked him to close my account.

I also rang BOI and they informed me that their accounts are updated each day at 17:00. No sign yet of my money that left NR on the 17th.

Marion
 
I had received a call this morning from NR in Dublin and the guy told me to ring him if when I tried my password it didn't work. At that stage I hadn't received my post.

In fact 2 new passwords arrived - with different use by dates. I used the most recent and I was still told that my account was locked. So then I tried the other. Same response.

So I rang him after my failed attempts and while I had his undivided attention I asked him to close my account.

I also rang BOI and they informed me that their accounts are updated each day at 17:00. No sign yet of my money that left NR on the 17th.

Marion

Don't worry Marion - they sent it to me - it coulbd have been the one meant for you - yours wasn't €975,233.27 by any chance?
 
Oh - my error - I put the decimal point in the wrong place -silly me - move the decimal point one place to the right
 
At 3am on 15th got through and closed my account, Got on again on Monday 17th and "money has been sent to your bank"

It arrived this morning 20th, so all things considered, in my case anyway it came through within the normal 3/4 days. Phew what relieve. ;):) :D
 
At 3am on 15th got through and closed my account, Got on again on Monday 17th and "money has been sent to your bank"

It arrived this morning 20th, so all things considered, in my case anyway it came through within the normal 3/4 days. Phew what relieve. ;):) :D

I suppose to put it in context at this stage - is anyone aware of any situation where the bank is not paying - there are delays as they outlined - but they are honouring as far as I can see.......

That in itself should be a relief for many....

ninsaga
 
Au contraire, the bank run was anything but irrational. The management had overextended themselves in borrowing short and lending long to such an extent that they felt it necessary to apply for emergency funding from the Bank of England to remain solvent. Hardly confidence inspiring.
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I regard the initial rush to get money out as irrational given the facts. It was primarily an emotional response to words like 'emergency funding' and the manner in which it was reported. You could argue that seeing a bank run and believing the UK government are going to allow it to bust the bank (even after having committed to stand behind it), it is then rational to want to get your money out before it's all gone. I certainly did not believe it would get that far as the political consequences would have been disastrous for the Labour government. It would have been an act of suicide. What's more it could very easily get out of control and spread like wildfire to other institutions in the wake of NR's collapse. They had to do whatever was necessary to stop the rot, and they did.


After conducting due diligence the BoE satisfied themselves that NR was indeed still solvent and approved the emergency funding. Of course this due diligence was predicated on two factors -

(1) £24 billion in deposits
(2) The 'credit crunch' being a short term phenomenon

We know (1) no longer holds and the jury is still out on (2). I think it's way too much risk to consider for what is supposed to be a safe and liquid means of storing cash. Government guarantee or not, how easy do you think it will be to get your money back if the bank goes into receivership? Are you being rewarded adequately for this potentially major inconvenience?

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But it wasn't just about the £24 billion in deposits, you're also looking at its loan book of £113 billion which is considered to be of superior quality to the UK average with numbers of mortgages three months or more in arrears only half the industry average. The Bank of England was satisfied to accept these mortgages as collateral for the funding. The FSA stated the bank exceeded its regulatory capital requirement. It seemed quite reasonable to believe that they would not have provided the funding had the bank not been solid. In a sense by the time the news broke, the danger had passed - it had got a clean bill of health and was backed by the Bank of England. Two weeks ago, when everyone was sleeping like babies thinking their money was completely safe, there was perhaps more reason for concern but it's just we didn't know about it so we weren't concerned.

Also, the only reason the £24 billion element of their assets can be called into question is because people reacted in the way they did. That was self-fulfilling.

As to what's my reward for not doing anything and keeping my cash in NR. Well, I enjoyed not having to queue for hours outside the office in Dublin for one thing and it was great not to waste the weekend trying to get through the online system to complete a transfer that would have been so slow anyway, it probably wouldn't have arrived in time to make any difference had the situation really been that bad. But more importantly, I didn't want to participate in the needless destruction of a bank that has made a massive difference to the rates savers in Ireland can expect on deposit. I've always been a satisfied customer and I valued their presence in the market greatly. Sadly, it looks like the brand is finished, its reputation irreparably tarnished by the media storm and the queues outside its doors (I know some people will argue its business model brought it on itself, but I'm talking about what precisely did the most damage to the brand in the public mind).

If Northern Rock's operation in Ireland is wound down by itself or possible new owners then it's going to have an impact on deposit rates. Why should other banks offer the rates they do at the moment if one of their biggest competitors has disappeared? Even if you don't have money in NR, its mere presence in the market was influencing the rate you receive. People say what have you to gain by leaving it there? well, we'll see what we've lost in the months and years ahead I reckon.

Lastly, it has to be said that in fairness to the people who queued and besieged the web site, their actions look likely to result in a better deposit compensation scheme from the UK authorities. Lets hope there's a UK based bank still operating here under the scheme so we can take advantage of that enhanced protection in the future.
 
Just logged on to see status of Pending Transaction - its been pending since Sept 16th (Sunday).. I checked the destination account but no sign there.

Anyway, rang NR and got through to UK call centre. They advised it would've been Monday when the transaction fired, and that I should expect 5 days for it to complete. I was also advised to check with my bank at cob today (Friday) and if its not in by then to check again on Monday... seemingly no account updating being done at weekend.... ?
 
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