National Maternity Hospital

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cremeegg

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The story so far: I'm trying to stick to the facts.

The existing NMH in Holles st has passed its sell by date and needs to be replaced.

The decision was made to move to build anew on the campus of St Vincent's Hospital. It makes sense to have a major teaching hospital on the same site.

The €300m cost of the new building would be paid by the tax payer.

The new building would belong to the Sisters of Charity's trust, as the site belongs to them.

A deal was reached by the dept of Health and the sisters covering the running of the hospital and the exact relationship between the new NMH and the nuns. This was confidential.

Objections arose at the state giving a €300m new hospital to the nuns. These seem to be based on the nuns role in the mother and baby homes, the redress scheme and the matter of an/no apology.

Peter Boylan former Master of the NMH then very publicly joined the objectors.

The board including the current Master Rhona Mahony, called on him to resign as they felt he had criticised their position without consultation.

The nuns made huffy statements along the lines, well if you dont want the deal, we dont care, build your NMH somewhere else.

A bishop said that any procedures in a catholic hospital would have to be in line with catholic practice

The confidential deal was published.

Petre Boylan is not for resigning.

Have I missed anything ?
 
You left out the rant about proper planning, and the apparent inability of anyone involved in the decision making in projects like this to spend more than 5 minutes thinking about the fairly obvious issues.
 
I'm trying to stick to the facts for now. I fully intend to rant, and indulge in wild speculation with added ad hominem arguments at a later stage.
 
It looks like you've covered everything cremeegg.

Oh, one thing; I would like to know who will be paying for the large Septic Tank which is usually required when the Nuns are involved with pregnant women and babies. I think it's only fair that the State does not cover that cost.
 
I think you have one mistake in there cremeegg, the board did not call on Boylan to resign. The board did not meet to discuss asking him to resign so it looks like Kearns and Mahony together made this call. Certainly some members of the board were not consulted so the call to resign was not from the board.
 
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I heard on the radio that Peter Boylan is Rhona Mahoney's brother in law. If that is correct, interesting dinner conversations in that house.!!

Some of the reporting to me has been a bit OTT. Some of it almost implied there will be nuns and priests looking over the doctor's shoulders all the time which obviously will not be the case.

My bigger issue is the state spending a fortune building the hospital and then handing it over to a private entity. As a point of principle I don't like that. To add all of this fiasco to the Childrens Hospital costs spinning out of control and the fact that that hospital is being built in a place that will be horrendous for anyone outside of Dublin to get to beggars belief. Also why are 2 hospitals being built at all?. Surely there is merit in combining the 2?

The other question is the size of the board of the NMH, I believe it was 27 members voted. You can't have proper governance in a board that size, it allows people to abdicate responsibility
 
NMH Cost €300M+. Cork University Maternity Hospital was completed 10 years ago for less than a quarter of that. Back then the price of labour was much higher too. Something wrong somewhere . . . .
Does anybody know the projected amount of yearly births in NMH?
 
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Leper said:
NMH Cost €300M+. Cork University Hospital was completed 10 years ago for less than a quarter of that. Back then the price of labour was much higher too. Something wrong somewhere . . . .
Does anybody know the projected amount of yearly births in NMH?
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CUH has around 1000 beds, the new Children's hospital has 375 beds... strange...
 
I could be losing the point here.

The children's hospital is to be built in James to be co located with an adult hospital and a teaching hospital.

The maternity hospital in Vincent's. Surely it would make more sense for them all to be co located or not.

Transport wise I did it on aa route planner...26 mins by car between Vincent's and James.

Connolly would've been a much better option.
 
amtc said:
I could be losing the point here.

The children's hospital is to be built in James to be co located with an adult hospital and a teaching hospital.

The maternity hospital in Vincent's. Surely it would make more sense for them all to be co located or not.

Transport wise I did it on aa route planner...26 mins by car between Vincent's and James.

Connolly would've been a much better option.
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Connolly is not a top tier hospital. If I was knocked down in Blanchardstown I'd ask to be brought to James's.
From an infrastructure point of view James's is the best option as there is close train access, LUAS access, good bus access and bus lanes from the M50 for emergency vehicles. What they do need is a budget hotel nearby for family members to stay in. That's the model in the USA where there are massive hospital campuses (The one in Houston employs over 100,000 people). We don't need that but we do need the support services.

A maternity hospital will have the services required for babies. The co-location has more to do with the mothers and their needs should there be complications.

Does anyone know what the ownership structure of the new Children's Hospital will be?
 
Poor Desmond Martin is the chairman of the NMH, seems it is automatically the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, there are also a number of Cathoilc parish priests on the board. Poor Desmond Martin has been asking the Department of Health to take him off the board for a number of years.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/soci...removal-from-chair-at-holles-street-1.3062640

So we are expected to believe that the NMH becomes completely independent of the nuns, who under current plans own the land on which it is to be built, and will own the actual building itself. This independent NMH will be run, independently you understand, by a board which Ex-officio has at least 4 Catholic clergy on the independent board.

You couldn't make it up. These by the way are still facts. Not rants, not even raves.
 
The full list of members of the board is here

[broken link removed]

One of then is known to me personally, and while he is an admirable person with an exemplary record of achievement, and impressive and relevant qualifications qualifications for a role in a maternity hospital, he makes no bones about dedicating his retirement years to furthering the role of the Catholic Church in society
 
Purple said:
CUH has around 1000 beds, the new Children's hospital has 375 beds... strange...
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Sorry Purple, I had a senior "moment" earlier and should have said Cork University Maternity Hospital and not Cork University Hospital (on same site but different hospitals).
 
It's late in the day, but the New Maternity Hospital is destined for "twinning" next to St-James Hospital. I understand the informed thinking brigade see it as a "must" that all the medical brains should be concentrated in one area. St-James Hospital is as near to unreachable as possible at the moment. A huge maternity hospital on the same site will contribute to being more unreachable and more babies born at crossroads/roundabouts enroute. I'm sure there won't be too many medical brains at such junctions. But, will the consultants make more money and have less costs if the NMH is located in St-James?

I can't understand why the government won't grasp the nettle and even at this late state locate the New Maternity Hospital away from the snarled city of Dublin.
 
Leper said:
It's late in the day, but the New Maternity Hospital is destined for "twinning" next to St-James Hospital. I understand the informed thinking brigade see it as a "must" that all the medical brains should be concentrated in one area. St-James Hospital is as near to unreachable as possible at the moment. A huge maternity hospital on the same site will contribute to being more unreachable and more babies born at crossroads/roundabouts enroute. I'm sure there won't be too many medical brains at such junctions. But, will the consultants make more money and have less costs if the NMH is located in St-James?

I can't understand why the government won't grasp the nettle and even at this late state locate the New Maternity Hospital away from the snarled city of Dublin.
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Over a third of the population of the country live in Dublin. The national transportation infrastructure radiates from and to Dublin. The LUAS runs through the St. James's site. There is a train station down the road and there is a QBC most of the way in from the M50.
It's probably the best option.
It makes no sense to build it away from Dublin. There could be an argument for a different part of the city.
The problem will be for parents and visitors getting there and the lack of parking will be an issue. Mind you there's only 20 parking spots for anyone turning up at Blanchardstown A&E. lots of spots for the people working there but almost nothing for the public.
If you are having chest pains you can park at the front of the hospital and walk around back to A&E. Why should we expect the State to start running hospitals with the main focus on sick people?
 
Leper said:
the New Maternity Hospital is destined for "twinning" next to St-James Hospital.
Click to expand...

They are all just holy places in Dublin to me, but isn't the new CHILDREN'S hospital going to St James and the new MATERNITY hospital going to St Vincents.
 
cremeegg said:
They are all just holy places in Dublin to me, but isn't the new CHILDREN'S hospital going to St James and the new MATERNITY hospital going to St Vincents.
Click to expand...

Well spotted there Delboy and Purple. Getting confusion into my Dublin hospitals locations.
 
Thankfully we have a Sinn Fein councillor on the board of Holles St to keep everyone honest(NO!)
This gent voted in favour of the move a number of months ago but then when he saw saw the reaction of some people ( as well as an order from 44 Parnell Sq) he decided that he was against it.
I wouldnt trust himself and Carr the Lord Mayor of Dublin to go the shop to buy bananas
 
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