KBC KBC basing cohorts on Application date rather than Draw-down dates

unfortunate

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129
Appreciate that. Did contact his office 2 months ago for initial opinion was quoted a fee and heard no initial thought back or got no contact. KBC gave me final response so took their advice and hit the FSPO with complaint.
 

Darn40

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72
Appreciate that. Did contact his office 2 months ago for initial opinion was quoted a fee and heard no initial thought back or got no contact. KBC gave me final response so took their advice and hit the FSPO with complaint.
Pk told the finance committee awhile back, that the flyer was for all fixed rate customers, it was a drive to maintain existing customers. I don’t know if he has changed his mind on it or not.

I also share your view on it.
 

unfortunate

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129
To me it's an obvious thing. But that's me. If FSPO does or not is another thing. PK hopefully is on it but if anyone else out there has any NEW view on it, bring it to the table please and maybe it'll help.
 

Jazzer1

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143
To me it's an obvious thing. But that's me. If FSPO does or not is another thing. PK hopefully is on it but if anyone else out there has any NEW view on it, bring it to the table please and maybe it'll help.
Hi unfortunate, If you send in all you documents to P.Kissanes office and a letter outlining your case they will review your case.
I have only paid him a small fee at the moment and he has already reviewed my case and told me "I was a category 1 case and I should be back on my tracker!". He has also wrote to kbc on my behalf and waiting their reply. He will not take on a case that he doesn't feel he can't win. So my advice to you is let him review your case and at least you can put it to bed one way or another. My application date was 18/2/2008!.
 

Jazzer1

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143
What fee were you charged?
For review of my case it was €187
For his office to fight my case it's around €1200.
If they feel you have a case they'll be happy to take small installments at any time they are very flexible. You have 70-80% chance of winning if you have a case with P.Kissanes. If you fight it on your own it's around 15%.
 

unfortunate

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129
Hm. 187 is not a small sum at the moment. And I know it could be worth it. Have to talk to boss bout it. Does it matter if its gone to ombudsman.?
 

unfortunate

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129
I think all complaints get held until examination is finished then they crack on with them. In any case I got nothing only a reference number from them that they received it.
 

Mountain Man1

Registered User
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6
Hi Peemac....would like some guidance. I have followed your input & KBC thread for many months. Firstly, I was part of the 650 PDH cohort that received letters in Dec and I also received details re my redress & compensation which is great news (account xxxxx/1) However, I also have 2 BTL properties that I took out at the very same time under the same T&Cs in Dec 2006 and also through the same broker ...one week apart! I made an official compliant to KBC to have these 2 properties included in the tracker mortgage redress review but this was formally declined in writing stating 'however, account xxxxxx/2 was a residential investment property, this product offering did not apply to this account', As account xxxx/2 had no contractual entitlement to a tracker rate, and there was no product offering group that would have included the account, the account has not been brought within the scope of the review'. The PDH is not cross secured against the 2 BTLs which is one good thing. The only fundamental differences between the contracts from IIB for PDH v BTL(2) is the interest rate and term period of mortgage.

Like many people in this forum I struggled to sustain the 2 BTL and now they are in the hands of receivers (1 just sold + other pending to be sold) and then discussions begin on the residual.I have been fully engaged and just want closure on that piece too so I can move on with my life and I have very young children. One of my arguments would be that I could have maintained the 2 BTL properties during the full period if I had been on the correct tracker rate on my PDH for the last 11 years. I would never have defaulted on BTL. The stress & strain this has caused me & my wife over the last 11 years is very similiar to a lot of people in this forum.

I suppose my questions are the following:

1) Should I just accept the formal response from KBC that no such product offering existed at the time for BTL ? Simply, just move on with my life & accept the redress received for PDH
2) Challenge it and discuss further with perhaps Padraic Kissane ?

Thanks
 

peemac

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660
@Mountain Man1

That wouldn't be an area I could comment on - definitely something for Padraic Kissane. His fee for an opinion is 150+vat which is very cheap considering the knowledge he has.

At least then you'll know if its worth pursuing or not
 

unfortunate

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129
Interest interview will Philip lane below. Mentions code of conduct and customers.
You’ve had some public criticism recently on the handling of tracker mortgage mis-selling. Do you think that the central bank has dealt withthe problem correctly? Was it alert early enoughto the dangers of tracking mortgage selling? That’s a multi-layered question.

The central bank was quite aware of the trackermortgage problem early on – it was very obvious. Basically, especially in the summer and autumn of 2008, the funding costs of banks totally changed. So they more or less withdrewtracker products in 2008. Most people who had trackers, they still had them because they were cheap. Remember: in 2006 and 2007, the ECB was raising rates. Various banks said: “If youwould like a fixed rate, you can fix for a couple of years.” Where most of this arose from was thatthe wording of these contracts assumed the world was stable. So when the two- or three-yearfixes were over, the customer would have to make a new decision. Essentially, a lot of this goes back to badly drafted contracts or banksnot really fully taking the customers’ perspective about what was the appropriate rate when the fix expired. So, in 2008, 2009, 2010, the central bank issued warnings saying banks have to be careful in communication with their customers, they could not mislead them. And also in 2006, we brought in a consumer protection code that goes beyond the narrow mortgage contract, and says you have to put customers first. From that perspective, what’s happening now is basically a major victory for the consumer protection role of the central bank. The redress and compensation flowing to customers is mostly not about violating contracts. It’s mostly about the wider questions of: “Did you put the customer first? Was all the information as transparent as it should be? Was it reasonable for the customer to read the small print of footnote 29 in terms and conditions?”

In the autumn of 2017, there was a period of uncertainty because, in terms of leading to a final finish line, in terms of the banks accepting that these were the number of cases that needed redressing, that was not concluded. This goes back to the trust issue. We were saying: “This is happening – it’s on its way through the process here.” The political system was, I think, nervous, until they saw what the outcome was. Whereas now we have 30,000-plus customers receiving significant compensation, there’s a greater awareness that this indeed would not have happened without the central bank.

We all have to learn lessons from it. The counterfactual where we trigger this kind of universal exam [of tracker mortgages] at an earlier point is a reasonable question, and we have to revisit it. But, in terms of the overall process here, it’s showing the power of a central bank in delivering consumer protection that goes beyond just contract violations to the widerresponsibility that financial service providers should put their customers first.

To
 

demoivre

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2,604
And also in 2006, we brought in a consumer protection code that goes beyond the narrow mortgage contract, and says you have to put customers first. From that perspective, what’s happening now is basically a major victory for the consumer protection role of the central bank. The redress and compensation flowing to customers is mostly not about violating contracts. It’s mostly about the wider questions of: “Did you put the customer first? Was all the information as transparent as it should be? Was it reasonable for the customer to read the small print of footnote 29 in terms and conditions?”
If the customer was to be put first then why were those who were to revert to the "prevailing variable rate" after a fixed period not offered a tracker, if trackers were available at the start or finish of the fixed period, since a tracker is a type of variable rate?

As an aside, and under Lane's nose, banks are routinely applying interim legal fees in repossession cases, with no right whatsoever to do so without direction from a judge. Consumer first ?
 

Babog007

Registered User
Messages
48
Thanks Peemac. Feb 08, approved April 08 drawn down May 08 through a broker, moving from a different lender for a better rate.

Loan was 333000 for 35 yrs, 3 yr fixed rate at 5.31%
Unfortunately things changed. We were on interest only from April 2010 then less than interest only late 2011. So the arrears were recapitalised owing over 386000 now.

They've put us on 1.25% now accoring to the letter.
@peemac redress pack received Mon. Excess Int 71k but they say no overcharge. Have contacted PK for an opinion
 

peemac

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660
@peemac redress pack received Mon. Excess Int 71k but they say no overcharge. Have contacted PK for an opinion
I would think that is correct as you stated that you paid either interest only or less than interest only for a long period.

Hence their statement will show "what we asked you for €1500 (example figure)" "what we should have asked you for €1000" "what you paid €900" - in this example, they overcharged you €500, but you did not overpay, hence any recalculation will be seen in the mortgage balance which has probably dropped by 71k.

Rough calculation says you should have paid about €110,000 in interest and capital in the last 8 years (from time you went onto interest only) - in an earlier post you said that total payments were in region of €19k (but you may have been mistaken)

Even with the excess interest taken off the account you could possibly be still in arrears, so the way they have done this is correct from the information you have provided.

If the mortgage did not have any errors and was up to date, the current balance would be circa 260k and the repayments circa 1k
 

peemac

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660
From KBC Accounts summary published today

Tracker Mortgage Examination

The tracker mortgage examination and the redress and compensation to customer accounts previously identified as impacted continue to receive the highest attention at KBC. The total number of mortgage accounts identified as impacted as at the end of April was 2,773*. Rates have been rectified on all impacted tracker mortgage accounts. This rate rectification process concluded at the end of February and all customers identified as impacted are now on the correct rate.

Redress and compensation continues to be paid to affected customers. To date 2,117 mortgage accounts (76%) have received redress and compensation and KBC remains on track to meet its commitment to complete redress and compensation to all impacted customers by the end of June 2018. KBC reiterates its apologies to all impacted customers for the harm and distress caused by the bank’s error or failure.
 
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