KBC KBC basing cohorts on Application date rather than Draw-down dates

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
662
@peemac :
Date of application: between 29/3/2008 and c 5/4/2008 ( letter from KBC/IIB confirming receipt of application, and general approval, received dated 7/4/2008 - so a few days before that allowing for processing etc)
Drawdown: 9/6/2008 - mortgage cheque with letter dated 6/6/2008 issued by IIB to Solicitor, received by Solicitor 9/6/2008.
That's possibly very good news for people as its well out of the Feb 6th date KBC had set, but possibly the broker had the initial application in beforehand as you seem to have discussed it in late 2007 as per your earlier post.

So before anyone gets hopes up, it would be nice to see another similar letter.
 

Babog007

Frequent Poster
Messages
53
Hi all, I'm new here but have got a lot of info reading posts. I posted last night on KBC redress amounts thread.

My KBC letter is also dated 27th April.
I'm really hoping I'm entitled to this as we'd made several complaints to KBC in 2011 about not being offered tracker after our 3 yrs fixed ended. I've attached the booklet which at the time they said wasn't in our contract.

The bank have put us though a lot. Financial circumstances changed late 09. Never missed a payment, always contacting them. Field agent out to our home bullying looking for higher payments, cut costs, shaming us. Wouldn't agree to PI arrangements, asked us twice to do voluntary surrender but we refused. In serious negative equity. Now going through MTRS only to find this examination was preventing them accepting an offer on our home. Only to find out now that we were impacted.
Screenshot_2018-05-03-10-30-25.png
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
662
@Babog007
The mortgage guide book is neither here nor there, it whats written or implied in your contract or any other communication and that the central bank has deemed the game changer.

Can you give the approx date of when you applied for the loan (not date of approval)?

The good news is that unless you redeemed the mortgage, you will be getting a nice cheque and mortgage balance will reduce. Also if the overcharge is higher than any arrears, your credit record will be amended.
 

Babog007

Frequent Poster
Messages
53
Thanks Peemac. Feb 08, approved April 08 drawn down May 08 through a broker, moving from a different lender for a better rate.

Loan was 333000 for 35 yrs, 3 yr fixed rate at 5.31%
Unfortunately things changed. We were on interest only from April 2010 then less than interest only late 2011. So the arrears were recapitalised owing over 386000 now.

They've put us on 1.25% now accoring to the letter.
 
Last edited:

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
662
@Babog007 Feb 2008 puts you in the infamous flyer cohort with original application going in February 2008. So its not a new group, just one of the last of the old group If you did not go into arrears, and correct rate applied your balance would currently be circa €285k

Interest charged for the period was about 100k
Correct interest should have been about 35k

That's a 65k overcharge, which will probably go against the mortgage balance and bring it to 320k and with new monthly payments of about €1500 assuming 25 years left.

The compensation and time value for the overcharge will be paid as a cheque - probably about 10k
 

Babog007

Frequent Poster
Messages
53
I'll be waiting on the next letter.

Since the fixed rate ended we've paid roughly 19.5k to KBC which was just going on interest. Can you tell me what happens to that?

You are great helping so many people with their questions. Really appreciate it.
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
662
How does KBC late arrival fit into this, application early April 2008??
I think from reading another of his posts that the application may have initially gone in during February 2008 with information such as salary certs going to them later.
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
662
I'll be waiting on the next letter.

Since the fixed rate ended we've paid roughly 19.5k to KBC which was just going on interest. Can you tell me what happens to that?

You are great helping so many people with their questions. Really appreciate it.
Only 19.5k over 7 years? (about €250 a month?)

If that's correct, then you've been very lucky it wasn't repossessed.

You should have paid about 85k if correct interest rates were applied, so you'll still be about 65k in arrears if that 19.5 figure is correct as the total payment over 7 years.

If the amount paid was more than that, then the arrears will drop. Only if amount paid was over 85k would you see a cheque for overpayment. Even the compensation cheque may be small if they go by overpayment rather than overcharge amount .
 

Babog007

Frequent Poster
Messages
53
Only 19.5k over 7 years? (about €250 a month?)

If that's correct, then you've been very lucky it wasn't repossessed.

You should have paid about 85k if correct interest rates were applied, so you'll still be about 65k in arrears if that 19.5 figure is correct as the total payment over 7 years.

If the amount paid was more than that, then the arrears will drop. Only if amount paid was over 85k would you see a cheque for overpayment. Even the compensation cheque may be small if they go by overpayment rather than overcharge amount .[/QUOTE

That figure is wrong so. Will have to look at it again later.
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
662
I learnt so much from reading these threads, I hope information about my situation may help others in some way:
I know from various posts here, that I don’t have all the detailed facts as to why I was included, so will be researching what papers I have today, but what I do know is:
Remortgaged to KBC in 2007/2008 ( I will have to check dates of application etc but applied late 2007, drewdown early 2008, in the first quarter)
Part of my mortgage was tracker rate, which drewdown first, c €56100,
There was a delay with drawing down the second mortgage funds due to legal/property purchase problems, broker advised going for fixed rate for that portion
Sorry peemac but the date of his application was 07/042008. That's well outside Feb deadline that KBC set.
After 10 years, exact dates can get muddled. In post above it seems it was all connected to an overall application before Feb 2008.
 

unfortunate

Frequent Poster
Messages
129
@peemac :
Date of application: between 29/3/2008 and c 5/4/2008 ( letter from KBC/IIB confirming receipt of application, and general approval, received dated 7/4/2008 - so a few days before that allowing for processing etc)
Drawdown: 9/6/2008 - mortgage cheque with letter dated 6/6/2008 issued by IIB to Solicitor, received by Solicitor 9/6/2008.
Application well outside end date. Also revisited flyer as broker was urged to contact me after I looked for redemption figures in may 2007 as it was in both their interests to keep me as customer. That's when he told me of rolling to tracker from fixed as per flyer.
 

bluestilton

Registered User
Messages
26
Is it the case that KBC are only deeming as impacted those within the dates of the infamous Flyer? The CB Framework for Conducting the Tracker Mortgage Examination specifies the relevant period as "the period from when the lender commenced offering Tracker Mortgage Interest Rates to 31 December 2015". IIB/KBC were offering trackers well before the dates of the infamous flyer as is evident from their application forms and other marketing material. The sense I get from various threads on the subject is that KBC are just focusing on the particular cohort of applications within the dates of the flyer, if this is the case are they complying with the terms of the Framework laid down by the Central Bank? Has anyone had their tracker reinstated in relation to mortgage applications outside of these dates?
 

unfortunate

Frequent Poster
Messages
129
As far as I'm aware yes. The problem is flyer wording. To my mind its ALL fixed rate customers at the intro to it. New customers are catered for further down the flyer. Plus they argue it was broker clients. I was told by my broker about it and to take it into account to stay with KBC rather than switch provider.
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
662
As far as I'm aware yes. The problem is flyer wording. To my mind its ALL fixed rate customers at the intro to it. New customers are catered for further down the flyer. Plus they argue it was broker clients. I was told by my broker about it and to take it into account to stay with KBC rather than switch provider.
I wouldn't agree with that and I think you have a very steep hill to climb on this.

The norm would be for brokers to write new business. Maybe you had a different relationship , but that would not be the norm and the broker would have known this was for new business.

I really think you are trying to convince yourself that you are right , but looking at your initial post, you thought then that it was a stab in the dark

I just can't see any ray of light for your case. But that's just an opinion .

Have you talked to Padraic Kissane yet? He'll charge a fee, but at least then you'll have a professional opinion based on massive knowledge.
 

unfortunate

Frequent Poster
Messages
129
First was stab but knew tracker was spoken about somewhere. Topped up in early may with bank direct and broker contacted them about it and insurance. They wouldn't talk to him but then sent him a letter urging him to talk to me when they got letter from my solicitor to get redemption figures as I was looking at switching. Letter to solicitor and broker the same day. They told him that it was in both their interests to keep me as a customer. I know you don't agree about flyer but it does say all fixed rate customers at header....then new tracker product for all new customers further down. That's a distinct difference to my mind. Maybe I'm the only one that reads it this way. And on pk I can't afford a fee to him so I'll have to fight my own corner. Just throwing it out there but does anyone share my view??
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
662
Pk will give an initial opinion free. Only if he thinks its worth fighting, will he charge a fee.

So I'd get an initial opinion.

I'd love to say you have a chance, but I'm being pragmatic.
 
Top