KBC KBC basing cohorts on Application date rather than Draw-down dates

peemac

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648
Haven’t a clue what to do next wether it’s even worth pursuing if they say it’s not effected
Looking at your original post - it seems you switched before your fixed rate was up, therefore you redeemed your mortgage before any impact and therefore you were not impacted.

If you had switched after the fixed rate was finished and switched because you were not put on a tracker, you would have a case. But based on your original post, I can't see a case.
 

peemac

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648
Got the same letter mortgage on tracker in 2006 then moved to fixed and redeemed. Not happy with KBC plan on appeal anyone else in similar situation? When I redeemed had to pay break out fee. Also KBC unhelpful.
Just like noodled above - you redeemed before there was any impact and therefore it would be difficult to prove any impact.
 

Sanparom

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97
I got a letter a few weeks ago from KBC. I meant to post the contents here before now, but I'm only getting around to it today.

Anyway, I wasn't deemed impacted. In the letter they said that there were 3 impacted cohorts:

1. that mortgage contract confirmed that you would be on a tracker rate either from the outset or following the expiry of a fixed rate period
2. that you contacted the bank and secured a contractual agreement to switch to a tracker rate of interest at a point in time
3. though not provided for in your original contract, you secured a contractual agreement with the bank to be offered a tracker rate at a particular point in time.

Where is the flyer cohort there? Point 3? If so, I'm very dubious. There was no contract with the bank. Also, the flyer said that all fixed rates would roll to tracker, so really, all of us on a fixed rate should have gone to tracker. Even Padraig Kissane has recognised this recently.

They wouldn't provide me with interest rate for tracker at that time. Does anyone know what it was?
 

Tipptop2

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21
@Tipptop2 Can you clarify what date in November 2006 you received and signed your loan offer?


I think this is important in your case and I assume you have kept this documentation to show you had it available to you at the time?


That is fair enough, and I think you need to raise a formal complaint to KBC to get them investigate this. However this assumes that your offer was signed AFTER 7th November. If it was signed on or before that date, the above comment would be ignored (rightly, since the flyer did not exist).
This is why dates are very important around the fringes here

KBC have no way of knowing what discussions you had with your broker. They also have no way of knowing you had another offer on the table. However, I do believe this is important information - you need to show it to them via a formal complaint and let them assess the case on its individual merits - assuming you have, or can get access to, the information showing the other loan offer


With all due respect to everyone here, and in particular those who have been fighting KBC on this for year via the FSO and other groups, can I ask what steps you took to address this prior to this?
When your fixed period expired, did you request to be put onto a tracker? Did you mention the flyer ?
Did you raise a formal complaint to KBC at the time? Did you raise anything to the FSO?
I think you need to take a step back, get your information sorted, including the exact dates and the proof of the other offer - raise a complaint to KBC and let them investigate it based on your personal circumstance. Once this is done, then either go to the FSO or PKissane. At the moment, you are in a large category of 'potentially impacted' customers being dealt with by KBC as a group. You need to show KBC why you were personally impacted by the flyer and how...
Yes i agree with most of what you say. My loan offer was middle to late Nov. so well after the 7th. KBC have a document stating that I had a loan offer from another institution including proof of income cert from another financial institution. I know this from my data request. I disagree with you on the onus was with the individual to chase the bank for the correct rates as there was a massive breach of trust here in my opinion. It looks like I will have to fight my case despite KBC claiming to rectify the mistakes of the past.
 

gnf_ireland

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1,367
My loan offer was middle to late Nov. so well after the 7th. KBC have a document stating that I had a loan offer from another institution including proof of income cert from another financial institution. I know this from my data request.
If I was you, I would raise a formal complaint to KBC asking them to properly address the issues as you outlined above. I also assume the mortgage was applied for via a broker. If you had two loan offers available to you, it is very likely (even with hindsight) that the flyer to the broker would have swayed your decision. It is very likely that you had regular engagement with the broker after 7th November 2006, so the flyer would have been fresh in their minds. You need to state your case clearly, and more importantly why you were swayed to go with KBC over the other bank. A letter from the broker would strengthen your case here. If that fails, I think you would have a strong case with the FSO.
The alternative is to go to PKissane, and I am sure he would be willing to take this case on as it is the strongest of the fringe date ones (in my personal view).

I disagree with you on the onus was with the individual to chase the bank for the correct rates as there was a massive breach of trust here in my opinion.
I think we can agree to disagree here. If you had expected to go onto a tracker rate when the fixed period expired, you should have got this in writing or at least some sort of email/record of the conversation. The problem with brokers (in my view in this scenario) is there is a middle man for the banks to blame. I have no idea what was discussed between you and your broker, and between your broker and the bank and what agreements were made. The one thing that is clear from all the correspondence here is very little of it appears to be in writing, and anything in writing appears to be ambiguous (a fixed rate written on a form beside a tracker box for example).
There is always an onus on the purchaser to ensure they have the right terms - no different to if I buy a car, its my business to ensure the correct car arrives and any terms of the finance are what was agreed. Let the buyer beware and all that good stuff !
The banks claim there is no case to answer here and you are not entitled to a tracker. I happen to disagree, but the bank is likely to hold the position unless a strong argument is made to change it.
The massive breach of trust is irrelevant in personal cases - you don't trust them; that's fine. Not many do. You still need to convince either the bank, the FSO, the CB or the court that you are rightfully entitled to a tracker (depending on the route you take). Convincing yourself is irrelevant here.

It looks like I will have to fight my case despite KBC claiming to rectify the mistakes of the past.
Everything from here on will be hard fought with the banks sadly...
 

noredress

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Messages
3
Query got letter last week not impacted. On tracker in 2006, fixed in 2007 for 3 yrs but KBC wrote back confirming fixed for 2 years up to March 2009. Redeemed in June 2009 when fixed rate should have ended According to their correspondence. Additionally when I refeememed I had a second mortgage and I requested rate from mortgage 1 be applied to mortgage 2. KBC agreed to transfer interest rate from mortgage 1 to mortgage 2 and I paid fee to do so. I feel I have ample grounds for appeal on both mortgages. Any advice?
 

Tipptop2

Registered User
Messages
21
Thanks. I just got a letter stating that i have not been deemed affected by the criteria issued by the Central bank.
They say i did not select tracker on the application form. There was three boxes on the form fixed, variable or tracker. I did not tick any box but my broker wrote in freehand interest only on the form.
They say "there was no contractual obligation established to provide a tracker rate of interest on the account"
Any thoughts or opinions welcome...
 

Audrey-666

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Messages
14
Any one on here that account was deemed impacted receive any extra compensation if a receiver was appointed over your property?
To clarify I am still waiting on my compensation pack to come out last letter I received was dated 29th March saying my case is still being accessed and full redress and compensation will be paid by end of June.
 

Johnc6

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36
Hi, anyone been told by the bank, the reason some data access records are missing is beacuse they were issued through a mail merge and were not saved?
 

mccoypat94

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118
I was told something similar when I requested the 'roll-off' letter from the end of my fixed term.
 

Johnc6

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Messages
36
@mccoypat94 Yes it was the roll off letters that were missing from my returned DAR also. I would have thought that these type of letters should have been saved onto my file as they contained significant information, mine had the SVR detailed and monthly repayments costs. How can the bank be certain they have carried out a comprehensive tracker review, as in my case some documentation is missing from their records?
 

Darn40

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Messages
70
@mccoypat94 Yes it was the roll off letters that were missing from my returned DAR also. I would have thought that these type of letters should have been saved onto my file as they contained significant information, mine had the SVR detailed and monthly repayments costs. How can the bank be certain they have carried out a comprehensive tracker review, as in my case some documentation is missing from their records?[/QUO
 

Darn40

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Messages
70
That’s the way they work.
They won’t give you anything that would prove your case.

If your not happy with your DAR,
You can make a complaint to the FSO, saying important paperwork was missing.

isn’t it very convenient for the bank,how this paperwork goes missing ??
 

unfortunate

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Messages
128
Mine missing too. But got a letter in word document dated from 07 emailed to me that seems to have been created this year. When questioned they said it was original copied and pasted from my file. So have requested original which was missing.
 

Johnc6

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Messages
36
Padraic Kissane did tell the Finance Committee during his last meeting that he had grave concerns in relation to data access requests as some pertinent documents seem to be withdrawn by banks.
 
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mccoypat94

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Messages
118
@mccoypat94 Yes it was the roll off letters that were missing from my returned DAR also. I would have thought that these type of letters should have been saved onto my file as they contained significant information, mine had the SVR detailed and monthly repayments costs. How can the bank be certain they have carried out a comprehensive tracker review, as in my case some documentation is missing from their records?
Yes, there are quite a few of us in the same boat, being refused docs that are relevant and faced with a bank who will pick and choose from our files to suit their arguement.
For example, several people here have been told dates and times where they called and made queries on their account, and 'never asked about a tracker'
Most of this cohort made previous queries about a tracker and, surprise surprise these calls arent recorded.
In any case, they werent going to be offered one, so the point is absolutely irrelevant !
 

unfortunate

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128
Anybody on this thread have a copy kbc mortgage product brochure from 2005? ie the book explaining the mortgages available etc. If so can it be scanned and thrown up here?.
 
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