italian election results: will brussels finally listen to the people

Discussion in 'Letting Off Steam' started by joe sod, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. odyssey06

    odyssey06 Frequent Poster

    Well eh that kinda proves my point. It's as unrealistic to expect Egyptians to vote like the French, as it is to expect all of Europe to act like Germans... and the Italian vote for populism should be seen in that light. I think the limits of EU integration were pushed too far, and this vote in part is a reaction against that. As is Brexit and the Visregad group.
  2. joe sod

    joe sod Frequent Poster

    I did read your post and you do know the history of this region better than I do. But with regard to colonialism , it works both ways, after all the ottomans did colonize the Balkans and southern Europe. Anyway I think colonialism is a distraction because how long do we continue with this excuse, another century. I think there needs to be change within the region and I think it is actually starting. I think Saudi Arabia is moving away from religious fundamentalism now, I think they see the writing on the wall , they cannot continue as a modern country and harbour fundamentalists.
  3. Ceist Beag

    Ceist Beag Frequent Poster

    Purple you're clearly well read on the history in this area so I completely defer to your knowledge here, and I completely accept your point that the west has a large hand in the many wars around the world, but it looks this particular point isn't quite true - at least according to truth-out which seems to make a logical and coherent argument as to why they believe it is not true. That's not saying the US had any legitimate reason to get involved, it's just that their reason for get involved may not be related to the gas line as you suggested.
    Purple likes this.
  4. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

    They did indeed. The Russians took Crimea from them around the same time America fought it's war of independence, hence their legitimate claim that it is Russian and not part of Ukraine.

    I hope you are right but I doubt it. Colonialism was about economic control and gain. You don't need to have the same level of direct control in the modern world, you just need client government. Client governments may be of the people but they cannot be by the people or for the people.
  5. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

    I don't see the connection and nobody in the EU or Germany is looking for us all to be like Germany.
  6. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort Frequent Poster

    I'm in complete agreement here.

    No they weren't, they were fleeing a worn torn region. It may have escape your notice but the immigration 'crisis' started not long after the war in Syria.
    If what you say is correct, why wasn't there a immigrant crisis before the war? Why have there not been mass boat crossings before the outbreak of war if what they wanted was simply to get into Europe without a visa?

    But would it be ok to protect their children from warfare?

    The Arab 'Spring' was a mixed bag of affiliates protesting state corruption and mistreatment, labour conditions, food prices, unemployment and other social and economic conditions.
    Western media likened to laud over the protests as a genuine, holistic move by the people for democracy and freedom. It wasn't - in the main, food prices were inflating way over what wages were paying.

    This is lazy commentary. It is repeatedly bandied about but I have never heard anyone describe exactly what it is supposed to mean.
    The word 'integrate' itself means to combine or join two or more things together. Meaning as much as immigrants have to 'integrate' with western cultures, it is only really possible if we integrate with their cultures.
    Purple likes this.
  7. Superman

    Superman Frequent Poster

    Although not as quickly as this one:
    - one of severals children mown down in Nice ( or one could pick several truck attack / other forms of attack from around Europe).
    I recall government politicians suggesting it was racist scaremongering to suggest that as many as [10-15,000 - or so] Poles would come to Ireland. Not only incorrect by an order of magnitude, but also attempting to smear any questioning of the competence with which it was being handled.
  8. cremeegg

    cremeegg Frequent Poster

    I fully agree that the political class had no clue how many Poles would come to Ireland after 2002.

    However to conflate the arrival of Poles and other Eastern Europeans in Ireland with truck attacks and dead babies is outrageous, you should be ashamed of yourself.