Is there broad support for the current Public Sector strikes?

[Purple]

I never made that assertion, anywhere.

I did.

 

[Purple]

On top of the above if we spend an extra €2 billion a year of our Public Service budget on wages for existing employees then there will be €2 billion less to pay additional employees, to build new hospitals, to fund new equipment, to pay for new drugs, to have additional screening services, to have more teachers, to have better drug treatment services, to have more Gardai, etc.

The net result of the State spending €2 Billion more in wages for existing public services is that the State will provide €2 billion less in actual public services.

 

[Sister Sara]

My post is specifically about diagnostic services, needed prior to initialating treatment. I think most medics would agree you can't treat a patient unless you are clear bout their illnesses.

Yeh, so the illness has not been detected yet? Or the illness or ailment causing the symptoms has not been diagnosed yet?

I never made that assertion, anywhere.

I never said you did. You asked me my position, I gave it to you.

People getting scans because they are suspected of having cancer are not getting cancer treatments.

People 'suspected' of having cancer are not cancer patients and do not receive cancer treatment.

I am of reasonably good health, touch wood. I recently underwent diagnostic treatment for suspected prostate cancer, high blood readings.

Had one of my diagnostic treatments been today it would have been cancelled as the treatment was neither considered urgent or time-sensitive.
It would however, be re-scheduled in a manner that should the diagnosis be positive (as in a positive cancer reading) that there would be sufficient time to treat the cancer.

If I had already been diagnosed with cancer prior to today, my cancer treatment would not have been cancelled.

In the end, the diagnosis provided an inconclusive result requiring me to book further blood tests , due in a couple of months, for continued monitoring.

Whether the cancer develops or not, todays industrial action has zero impact on my health or treatment thereof.

 

[Purple]

I am of reasonably good health, touch wood. I recently underwent diagnostic treatment for suspected prostate cancer, high blood readings.

Had one of my diagnostic treatments been today it would have been cancelled as the treatment was neither considered urgent or time-sensitive.
It would however, be re-scheduled in a manner that should the diagnosis be positive (as in a positive cancer reading) that there would be sufficient time to treat the cancer.

If I had already been diagnosed with cancer prior to today, my cancer treatment would not have been cancelled.

In the end, the diagnosis provided an inconclusive result requiring me to book further blood tests , due in a couple of months, for continued monitoring.

Whether the cancer develops or not, todays industrial action has zero impact on my health or treatment thereof.

Good for you. When my wife was diagnosed with cancer her GP sent her for a scan, the scan showed up suspected tumors, she had an MRI the same day and she was operated on within 2 weeks. That was through a private hospital. If her diagnosis was delayed by 3 months she'd be dead now.

 

[michaelm]

It is hard to know if there is broad support for the current round of strikes.

Zero public support i would have thought.

IF support from passing motorist and pedestrians is any indicator then there would seem to be a lot of public support. While some, many maybe, on AAM might believe that public service workers should lie back, think of Ireland and allow their salaries to atrophy, I don't believe this is the view of the wider public.

 

[JoeRoberts]

And any prospective serious diagnosis following a cancelled appointment today is still treatable in time.

So how many days strike do you think we could have per year and still not impact anyones health ?

 

[JoeRoberts]

IF support from passing motorist and pedestrians is any indicator then there would seem to be a lot of public support.

Maybe they were PS workers beeping...

 

[michaelm]

Yeah, maybe. Hence the big IF.

 

[Purple]

IF support from passing motorist and pedestrians is any indicator then there would seem to be a lot of public support.

Well if there's an RTE vox pop as well then that's all we need to know.

While some, many maybe, on AAM might believe that public service workers should lie back, think of Ireland and allow their salaries to atrophy, I don't believe this is the view of the wider public.

The last wage agreement gave pay increases which were ahead of inflation.
There is no expectation that the next agreement will be any less generous.
Their current pay levels are vastly higher than the Private sector, and that's without including their gold plated pensions.
They enjoy vastly better terms and conditions than the Private Sector as a whole.
If that's atrophy then most people would take it.

I think that the problem is that many people, and not just State employees, think that the Government should somehow not just shield but totally insulate them from international headwinds like wars and climate change. The bad news is that grown-up's are not children and the Government is not their Mammy so when bad things happen then it may impact negatively on those not-really-adults.

A war in the Gulf will make petroleum more expensive.
That makes energy more expensive.
It also makes fertiliser more expensive.
Expensive fertiliser and climate change and high fuel costs and the war in Ukraine makes food more expensive.

"Mammy Mammy, make it all go away!" say the not-really-adults.
"What do you mean you can't protect us from reality?!" they say, "Fine then, we're going on strike!".

And so they did.

 

[Purple]

Yeah, maybe. It was a big IF.

It could have been the economically illiterate who think that there is limitless money and that there are no economic or societal consequences to giving everyone everything they want. There is no shortage of those people either.

 

[michaelm]

I'm not sure the SPSPS is gold plated.

 

[Purple]

'm not sure the SPSPS is gold plated.

Certainly not as gold plated as the previous scheme.

 

[mathepac]

You asked me my position, I gave it to you.

I never asked you your position as it's been abundantly clear. I asked a different question which you have avoided.

Maybe you can enlighten us as to how such appointments, canceled because of industrial action. get treated by "the system". Do they just go to the back of the queue, when it might conceivably be weeks before the patients concerned get seen, or do they jump to the front of the queue, delaying the appointments of perhaps dozens of others? Some insight, if you can provide it, would be helpful.

 

[rustbucket]

.deleted

 

[Sister Sara]

I never asked you your position

I beg to differ, see post #33

To your question,

Maybe you can enlighten us as to how such appointments, canceled because of industrial action. get treated by "the system". Do they just go to the back of the queue, when it might conceivably be weeks before the patients concerned get seen, or do they jump to the front of the queue, delaying the appointments of perhaps dozens of others? Some insight, if you can provide it, would be helpful.

Urgent, critical and time-sensitive appointments have not been cancelled. Routine, elective, and outpatient appointments have.

I'm assuming you have been to a GP before?

In my instance I presented myself to the medical centre to have routine blood tests carried out. It was purely of my own volition, I do it once a year since turning 50yrs of age making the appointment myself, the HSE do not schedule it. If that appointment was scheduled for today it would most likely have been cancelled and I would re-schedule another appointment at my local medical centre at a time of my choosing, subject to availability.

During the appointment the nurse takes my blood pressure, weighs me, and asks routine questions - bowel movements etc and other ailments that I might wish to disclose.

The bloods are taken, sent to a labrotory and readings are returned to my GP. Those readings, along with the answers I gave to other questions that suggest no medical concerns of a serious nature, allows the GP to make an assessment. In this instance it was to Galway urology department for further investigation as the blood readings were considered higher than where they should be.

If this appointment in Galway were scheduled for today it would most probably have been cancelled as it was neither urgent, or with time constraints - that is, another appointment could be scheduled in advance of any prospective and significant deterioration of my condition, if indeed my condition had deteriorated.

On the other hand, if I had answered negatively to questions - irregular bowel movements, traces of blood, high blood pressure, along with high blood readings then the GP's referral will show this and my case could be considered as having time-constraints. That is, if my appointment were scheduled today it would still proceed.

Further, if I had presented to a GP complaining of all manner of ailments - irregular bowel movements, nausea, bleeding, headaches, aches and pains, the GP could assess and admit me to A&E immediately in need of urgent care. If the urgent care returned results of a critical and time-constraining nature, any additional appointments and treatments that were scheduled for today would not have been cancelled as per the notice of the HSE.

 

[JoeRoberts]

Yeah, maybe. Hence the big IF.

I just worked it out, it was the retired teachers beeping who will also get the increase. Silly me.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

. I recently underwent diagnostic treatment for suspected prostate cancer,

Sister?

 

[Itchy]

On top of the above if we spend an extra €2 billion a year of our Public Service budget on wages for existing employees then there will be €2 billion less to pay additional employees, to build new hospitals, to fund new equipment, to pay for new drugs, to have additional screening services, to have more teachers, to have better drug treatment services, to have more Gardai, etc.

The net result of the State spending €2 Billion more in wages for existing public services is that the State will provide €2 billion less in actual public services.

Is this how it works in your business? 'Sorry guys, no bonus this year. If we spend the money on wages, then we can't expand the business, fund new equipment, get more customers, make more profit'?

The last wage agreement gave pay increases which were ahead of inflation.
There is no expectation that the next agreement will be any less generous.
Their current pay levels are vastly higher than the Private sector, and that's without including their gold plated pensions.
They enjoy vastly better terms and conditions than the Private Sector as a whole.
If that's atrophy then most people would take it.

Are pay levels "vastly" higher? Teachers granted! Pay the at the higher levels, certainly, is significantly lower than the private sector, I would have thought.

Over 50% of the public service are on the SPSPS now. The value of the scheme is no better than a standard private sector scheme. In fact, that's part of the reason entry level salaries are on the raise, the value of the pension contribution is so low that extended periods of a career could result in very poor pension provision. This is cited as a major cause of retention issues in the uniformed services.

There is plenty of atrophy on the ground. Retention crisis in the Defence Forces and Gardaí, massive amounts of vacancies in STEM teaching, Junior Doctors are still run ragged, recruiting specialist IT skills is a farce.

And the State in not exactly a benign employer. They seem make agreements with workers, extract the work practice changes then don't fulfil the pay end of the bargain. Not least the Defence Forces - subject to significant curtailment of their civil rights (conditions of service), so the State have total control, free of the threat of strike and their conditions have been total mess for decades. Contrast that with the slightly more militant Gardaí and the very militant teachers!

The Government padded the profit margins in the hospitality sector at the expense of tax payers. They padded fuel prices - benefitting the largest users. This strike action could be seen coming a mile off.

 

[Sister Sara]

Sister?

I'm of the view that you are neither royalty, a horse, or a pleasant orange flavoured fruit preserve?

The name comes from a family relative, a nun, that passed away in recent years. A lovely person.

 

[Itchy]

Interesting observation on a Teachers "gold plated" pension vs. modern pension provision!

My mother retired in 1975, after more than 40 years as a teacher, on a defined benefit pension of half her salary. On her death 21 years later, in 1996, her pension was well more than double its starting amount. That’s because her employer, the state, recognised that its promise to her included providing some protection against inflation. And well it might: inflation in 1975, the year she retired, topped 20%.

I retired 35 years after her, at end 2010, on a pension that was entirely defined contribution, yet I have enjoyed even better inflation protection than my mother. Already, less than sixteen years into retirement and in a far more benign inflation environment, my pension is more than double its starting amount. (See “The Magic Porridge Pot”, #645 above). Also, I can reasonably expect that future increases will more than match inflation for however long I live.