Is Moving Your €€ out of Ireland unpatriotic??

[elcato]

Would it not be better if the people who are happy with the status quo emigrated, leaving those who want to change the country here to make the place better? Not whingers, but actors of course. No point in whinging and doing nothing about it.

I take your point and agree with most but I for one, would be happy to allow people who are willing to accept the situation and get on with life stay.

 

[DB74]

My words were half in jest

By all means let people moan and whinge about it (I do myself) and have their say in the next general election or whatever.

But the crux of the current problem is that our banks need money, rightly or wrongly. And if people take money out of the banks for their own selfish purposes then the Govt has to borrow to make up for that removal. The taxpayer is then paying the interest on those borrowings.

It's just another version of the story of the mice and who will volunteer to put the bell on the cat.

I don't feel that people who remove their money from Irish banks have the right to moan about the budget

 

[bullworth]

And if people take money out of the banks for their own selfish purposes then the Govt has to borrow to make up for that removal. The taxpayer is then paying the interest on those borrowings.

Its' their money. They can do what the like with it and noone has a right to lecture them about it.

 

[Godfather]

Its' their money. They can do what the like with it and noone has a right to lecture them about it.

+1. On money everyone can do whatever they want in my opinion as well (unless missing obligations of course). Let's let God be the judge on that...

 

[Chris]

Im amazed at how people over-reacting in the last few weeks, the media have hyped this all up to the point everyone is convinced the country is about to go bust....Im glad the IMF are in as they will sort out the country since the gov cant

RTE are the worst offenders, programme afer programme of talking us into a deeper recession then we are in. Why cant Irish people cop the hell on and see that the EU will not let us fail, they have said it enough times.

The EU do not want to let countries fail, but the question is how many they can actually save. And as citizens from other countries get hit with the bills of fiscally inept countries they will at some stage not be so happy to be doing so.

First sign of trouble and everyone floods to pull money from irish banks to put it with the very countries that loaned us the money that has us in the problems we are in - Germany, UK and France!!!!

There is talk people are moving money for fear the EURO will fail..... so what are people doing putting it in german banks, which will revert to DM!

It's a bit more than the first sign of trouble. this has been going on for two years and the mess is getting increasingly worse. And I would prefer my euros to be converted into DM than new punts.

This is the time Irish people need to stand firm for the good of the country, like the OP stated, we have gone through much worse and come out the other end, sadly we have become a nation of Joe Duffy followers... Joe says jump and we say how high. Keep your funds with irish banks the guarantee schemes in place will protect deposits, and we have EU, IMF, UK Norway all pledging money to us to help us out.

And some people (including me) believe the good of the country is having the banks fail, which is why they are moving money out of Irish banks and into foreign banks or abroad. The guarantee is not worth the paper it is written on when you consider how much money Irish banks owe to foreign countries. Not even the EU/IMF would be willing to cough up that much money for a small country.

Im with the OP, very unpatriotic pulling funds from Irish banks..... all your doing is adding to the problems we have and for god sake we have enough!

The problem is that banks have not been allowed to fail and replaced by new or more solvent ones. If there was one action in this country that was unpatriotic then it was putting the public on the hook for all the private debts. Seeing through this and protecting your family is in my opinion not unpatriotic.

You're just a rat deserting a sinking ship. Except you're not actually leaving the ship. You're staying to moan about the additional taxes to prop up the banks and whinge because they have no money to lend when actually you are the problem as to why they have no money to lend. If the country is no good for your money then why not just leave with it. You're no better than the people who left in the famine instead of the ones who stuck it out through the hard times. You should be ashamed to call yourself Irish.

I for one am "moaning" about the additional taxes that have to be incurred because the banks were bailed out in the first place (I know I'm repeating myself). The reason they are unable to borrow is because their businesses are completely bust, why would anyone give a bankrupt business money and call it patriotic. Would it have been patriotic for people to buy Anglo shares in its dying days?

But the crux of the current problem is that our banks need money, rightly or wrongly. And if people take money out of the banks for their own selfish purposes then the Govt has to borrow to make up for that removal. The taxpayer is then paying the interest on those borrowings.

No, the crux of the problem is that the taxpayer was put on the line to save banks that should have been let fail and now has to pay for it. People didn't get a chance to vote for the bail out, but I voted subsequently by pulling all my savings out of Irish banks and most of it out of Ireland.

I don't feel that people who remove their money from Irish banks have the right to moan about the budget

Of course they do, they pay taxes just like everyone else does.

Its' their money. They can do what the like with it and noone has a right to lecture them about it.

Yes indeed, it's their money and they have already paid exorbitant taxes on it.

 

[farmerette]

Would it not be better if the people who are happy with the status quo emigrated, leaving those who want to change the country here to make the place better? Not whingers, but actors of course. No point in whinging and doing nothing about it.

hear hear , sounds like elcato ( like the goverment ) wants non fianna fail voters to emmigrate , that has always been a fianna fail policy in the past , coerce the brightest and best to leave and throw a few bones to the gombeens

 

[TSThomas]

... But the crux of the current problem is that our banks need money, rightly or wrongly. And if people take money out of the banks for their own selfish purposes then the Govt has to borrow to make up for that removal...

When people feel their money is threatened they'll move it elsewhere. It's the most logical course of action.

I don't feel that people who remove their money from Irish banks have the right to moan about the budget

Then you'd be wrong.

 

[Kev]

completely agree, and I'm not even Irish, but I live and pay my taxes here. I find the general attitude of deserting the country when things go bad ridiculous. Stand your ground, vote for the party you think it's going to introduce changes. Packing your bags and stashing the money away is not going to change anything.

I agree with this what is the point of moving money if you are going to stay in Ireland that will create a huge headache for depositors that do not live the country that they have put their savings in.

 

[Marietta]

Would it not be better if the people who are happy with the status quo emigrated, leaving those who want to change the country here to make the place better? Not whingers, but actors of course. No point in whinging and doing nothing about it.

Shnaek - Can you tell us exactly how YOU will go about changing the status quo. From what I can see Fianna Fail got more votes than Labour in the south Donegal by election. Have we learned anything from recent events????????????

 

[Mommah]

I only heard soundbites today....but I *thought* 80% of voters did NOT vote for FF. Given that 1 in 4 of us suffer from mental illness at any one point in time. only 20% were crazy enough to vote FF, which is positive.

 

[elcato]

hear hear , sounds like elcato ( like the goverment ) wants non fianna fail voters to emmigrate , that has always been a fianna fail policy in the past , coerce the brightest and best to leave and throw a few bones to the gombeens

Infacta, d d d d dose are not my p p p policies. Looks like I've been outed.
As usual, in typical Irish way, you have to blame anyone but not yourself. The majority of people voted for FF for the last 20 years. Like it or lump it, we are all collectively at fault. I'm not making a call to arms to tell everybody to vote FG or Labour but unfortunately we are stuck with the result. As long as there is local politics in Ireland then this will continue.

 

[Paddyman]

When I hear the hucksters in Leinster House talk about the "national interest" I want to run fast and far. It's unpatriotic to shop in the next town, county, or Dublin. It's unpatriotic to shop in in Newry or Belfast (part of our country). Its unpatriotic to shop from our EU partners or visit our families in the USA.
This from the hucksters who produced Jack Lynch ( of Gulf Oil and Whiddy fame), Frank Fahy (Of Shell and Rossport fame), Brian Lenihan, Peter Sutherland , Charlie Haughey, Bertie, Mary Harney , Charlie McGreevy, Michael Woods, etc.
Now its unpatriotic to protect your savings. Its o.k. for Bono, J.P. McManus, Denis O'Brien,the Smurfits, Tony and Gavin O'Reilly and the rest of the lads to stash their cash abroad. But they aren't doing it for protection from a failed state - merely to be more "tax-effective".
As a republican and an internationalist, I think that the patriotism of the huckster/crony capitalists is just a mask to hide vested interests. In my opinion you have a duty to protect yourself and your families from this scum!

 

[Chris]

Now its unpatriotic to protect your savings. Its o.k. for Bono, J.P. McManus, Denis O'Brien,the Smurfits, Tony and Gavin O'Reilly and the rest of the lads to stash their cash abroad. But they aren't doing it for protection from a failed state - merely to be more "tax-effective".
As a republican and an internationalist, I think that the patriotism of the huckster/crony capitalists is just a mask to hide vested interests. In my opinion you have a duty to protect yourself and your families from this scum!

Very well said. Some obscure definition of patriotism is not going to help my family when I'm among the last to try and retrieve my savings.

 

[shnaek]

As a republican and an internationalist, I think that the patriotism of the huckster/crony capitalists is just a mask to hide vested interests. In my opinion you have a duty to protect yourself and your families from this scum!

Well said.

 

[Godfather]

Now its unpatriotic to protect your savings. Its o.k. for Bono, J.P. McManus, Denis O'Brien,the Smurfits, Tony and Gavin O'Reilly and the rest of the lads to stash their cash abroad. But they aren't doing it for protection from a failed state - merely to be more "tax-effective"

Paddyman, genius comment I have to say! Really great comment!

 

[putsch]

I don't know whether "patriotic" is the right word but I do think it is a self-fulfilling prophecy to move money out of Irish banks - the more people do this the more likely the banks are to fail and thus those who withdraw their deposits are weakening the economy and contributing to the problems we have. I can understand that someone would feel/think " well I'm going to look after no 1" but not all of us feel like that.

I have moved a little money but left most of it in the Irish institutions for the above reasons - I'd feel guilty and selfish to do otherwise. Likwise I didn't participate in the property boom either.

 

[bullworth]

I have moved a little money but left most of it in the Irish institutions for the above reasons - I'd feel guilty and selfish to do otherwise. Likwise I didn't participate in the property boom either.

You cant take care of the people you care about unless you take care of yourself first. Otherwise your family and friends could need your help and you can find yourself unable to assist. Its the same with mental and physical health. If dad is unwell he cant take care of his children and his responsibilities.
Thats my view of patriotism. If the individuals are strong then they can help the rest of society but if the individual doesnt do his part to keep his mental, physical and financial health strong then he will not only be unable to help those he cares about but he will also become a burden on those who care about him. My view is one of wealth protection. If people in our society protect their wealth then they will actually have something remaining with which to invest in their country. Euros which fled the country can return after any crisis with their value preserved or increased but if they remain during a crisis then everyone will be broke during the aftermath, if the aftermath is a bad one.
Paddyman made a good point above. Its the people who can afford to leave their deposits in the banks who have sent those deposits offshore. If the banks fail and the country collapses those same leeches will bring that money back trying to buy up every cheap asset in sight. Knowing their view of ethics it could be a similar asset stripping exercise as Eircom which went from being a really strong company with plenty of assets to one which exists as a debt repayment machine with fewer employees. Small savers keep money; frequently their life savings in banks for a rainy day, for 100% security. Some rely on it as income in their retirement or as a lynchpin for their future plans. They are the ones who truly cannot afford to risk anything. If you can afford to take the risk of being a patsy for the golden circle and the bondholders then good for you but dont say you havent been warned. If you wish to take such risks you might as well buy some assets of equal or lesser risk. Its your money. Your choice. Consider your responsibilities in the real world when you make your financial decisions and consider what patriotism actually means and how little gratitude for it exists despite all the efforts of the ordinary decent person.

 

[TSThomas]

Now its unpatriotic to protect your savings...

For all the talk of be patriotic, "keep your money in Irish banks", what have said banks done in return? Lending is at an all time low, customers being pressured to dump tracker mortgages, overdraft facilities cut, interest rate rises on loans, deposit interest rates cut...

 

[Vega]

My grandfather fought in the war of independance and in the civil war.
He put his life at risk for this country, sacrificed his legal career and had to go "on the run" lived in the mountains being fed by locals.

What would he think if I move the bulk of my savings abroad.
Would I be spitting on his grave?

Should we stand and fight this economic battle or run for the hills?

No of course you would not be spitting on anyone's grave.

If you believe there is a chance of losing all your savings is losing your money patriotic?

 

[Lightning]

My 2 cents ... bank have treated the Irish public is a disgraceful manner. The activities of Anglo, INBS and AIB have brought this country to it's knees. I have no loyalty to any Irish bank and view the activity of the banks in a very low light. They deserve no loyalty.

You have a right to move your money where ever you want to move your money. It is your deposits, it is your decision.

Anyway, whether you think it is "patriotic" or not it is now happening on an unprecedented scale ... The Indo have reported that another €10bn has been pulled from Irish banks.