Is Mary Lou in trouble now?

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Peanuts20

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Reality is that 5 years in opposition and complaining about the government and SF have yet to make the big breakthrough to even have a chance of getting into Govt.
  • Vote is down significantly on this occassion, an actual 22% decline on 2020 numbers despite all the overspending issues/housing crisis. 120000 people took their vote elsewhere
  • Poor local elections, 12% or so in first preferences
  • Poor leadership and decision making in terms of the abuse issues that some of their members have dragged them into
Probably more issues to come, Brian Stanley's wife's interview is startling (see below). Clear issues with bullying, poor candidate selection and a total lack of originality in terms of policies and instead, she is trying to copy Barack Obama with all this talk of change, 16 years later.

www.leinsterexpress.ie

'We've gone through hell' Sinn Féin Cllr Caroline Dwane Stanley reacts

Wife of Brian Stanley speaks as he is about to be elected as independent TD for Laois
www.leinsterexpress.ie www.leinsterexpress.ie

They now have a core base of around 20% but for SF to push onwards, is it time for "goodbye Mary Lou". If this was any other party, the putsch would have started already

Could she be persuaded to run for the Aras as a means to save face?
 
Peanuts20 said:
They now have a core base of around 20% but for SF to push onwards, is it time for "goodbye Mary Lou". If this was any other party, the putsch would have started already
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They aren't like any other Party. The men in Belfast decide who the leader is and the men in Belfast will decide if there is to be a change. At the moment and for the foreseeable future there is no alternative to Mary Lou. She's competent and intelligent and has done a remarkable job of straddling the chasm between the image SF want to project and the reality of who they are and what they want.
 
I didn’t vote Sinn Fein but I am mature enough to see the transition of nationalist politics in all of Ireland. With 39 seats (one more than Fine Gael) Sinn Fein deserve to be in the reckoning to share power with Fianna Fáil in government. Micheal Martin doesn’t wish to talk with SF. That’s not OK in modern Ireland. If Tony Blair and Mo Mowlam failed to talk with SF we wouldn’t have had the Good Friday Agreement. It’s time for Micheal Martin to man-up and speak with Sinn Fein and get on with the job. If he does not wish to talk with Mary Lou McDonald he has the option of consigning himself to the back benches and running for President.
 
Leper said:
I didn’t vote Sinn Fein but I am mature enough to see the transition of nationalist politics in all of Ireland. With 39 seats (one more than Fine Gael) Sinn Fein deserve to be in the reckoning to share power with Fianna Fáil in government. Micheal Martin doesn’t wish to talk with SF. That’s not OK in modern Ireland. If Tony Blair and Mo Mowlam failed to talk with SF we wouldn’t have had the Good Friday Agreement. It’s time for Micheal Martin to man-up and speak with Sinn Fein and get on with the job. If he does not wish to talk with Mary Lou McDonald he has the option of consigning himself to the back benches and running for President.
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Stating the obvious - but he has more options than the one outlined above. Sinn Fein are a very strange party and it's increasingly likely MLMD will never be Taoiseach.
 
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Approximately twenty-five years ago I was sitting in a Cork bar watching Final Night at the Proms on BBC television. Rule Britannia was being sung with gusto (final night audience dressed on Union Jack hats etc - a fun occasion for British people who’d eventually vote Brexit). A Celtic jerseyed bar-stool-Provo jumped up and turned off the television and shouted “We Irish shouldn’t have to listen to that . . .” “Good Man Eddie” (not his real name) says I “You can tell your grandchildren that in the fight for Irish Freedom, you switched off Sunday Night at the Proms.” I was berated by him and others and called a West Brit by Celtic, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea supporters each of whom couldn’t find the location of any Premiership club if I supplied a map. Incidentally, Eddie named his house “Anfield.”

Micheal Martin’s behaviour is about a step up from that at best. If our senior politicians continue to reject even talking with Sinn Fein they are doing democracy a disservice. But of course the rank and file of rural FF (in their words) continue to do business with the Blueshirts and claim they are different.

. . . and when you think about it, does the rank and file SF member want to be in government? People like me collect election leaflets and have a habit of bring “election promises” up whenever I’m canvassed.
 
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@Leper, when the Shinners are run by their members, when their parliamentary party hold the real power within the part, when they are unequivocal about it not being okay to murder children and when the Army Council of the IRA is not the real and only power in the party, then, and only then, should any of the other constitutional parties consider going into government with them.
Anyone who thinks they are a normal political party is wilfully ignorant and naive.
 
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Leper said:
I didn’t vote Sinn Fein but I am mature enough to see the transition of nationalist politics in all of Ireland. With 39 seats (one more than Fine Gael) Sinn Fein deserve to be in the reckoning to share power with Fianna Fáil in government. Micheal Martin doesn’t wish to talk with SF. That’s not OK in modern Ireland. If Tony Blair and Mo Mowlam failed to talk with SF we wouldn’t have had the Good Friday Agreement. It’s time for Micheal Martin to man-up and speak with Sinn Fein and get on with the job. If he does not wish to talk with Mary Lou McDonald he has the option of consigning himself to the back benches and running for President.
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Look at the transfer patterns of the people who voted for FF. If MM went into gov with SF it would be the biggest middle finger imaginable to all the people who voted for them and guarantee the decimation of their future vote.

It’s laughable to suggest they should speak to SF.
 
For years we’ve been listening to FF and FG informing us that they are miles apart in policy etc. That’s the biggest lie in Irish politics as they are one and the same. Micheal Martin and previous Taoisigh have travelled to Northern Ireland to build bridges between the different political parties there. I don’t get that they can’t do the same with SF in the republic. No matter what way you want to look at the presence of SF, they are on the rise. Their voter base is no longer Celtic jersey wearing, pint drinking bar stool gunmen, it’s the young professionals along with the mortgage paid comfortable elderly. I’m not going to fight the election all over again and as I said I didn’t vote SF.

But, I think the republic is better off with SF peeing out from inside our tent than peeing in from outside. Unchecked, they are going to get stronger until there will come a time when FF/FG will want SF to speak with them. Now is the best time to get SF into a position (which I believe is not where they really want to be) and let’s see how they help govern Ireland Ltd. Otherwise SF will become stronger and stronger and become the New Fianna Fáil.
 
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Leper said:
For years we’ve been listening to FF and FG informing us that they are miles apart in policy etc. That’s the biggest lie in Irish politics as they are one and the same. Micheal Martin and previous Taoisigh have travelled to Northern Ireland to build bridges between the different political parties there. I don’t get that they can’t do the same with SF in the republic. No matter what way you want to look at the presence of SF, they are on the rise. Their voter base is no longer Celtic jersey wearing, pint drinking bar stool gunmen, it’s the young professionals along with the mortgage paid comfortable elderly. I’m not going to fight the election all over again and as I said I didn’t vote SF.

But, I think the republic is better off with SF peeing out from inside our tent than peeing in from outside. Unchecked, they are going to get stronger until there will come a time when FF/FG will want SF to speak with them. Now is the best time to get SF into a position (which I believe is not where they really want to be) and let’s see how they help govern Ireland Ltd. Otherwise SF will become stronger and stronger and become the New Fianna Fáil.
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There’s just no sense to this. FF and FG are more aligned on policy. Their respective voters almost unanimously hate SF. The majority of the electorate do not want SF in government.

But FF should go into gov with SF despite these wishes of the electorate and misalignment on policy all because SF might be bigger in 5 years time if they dont (despite fact they lost a massive proportion of their vote in the last 5 years)? I think you might be letting your own viewpoint overrule logical thinking.
 
Leper said:
Micheal Martin and previous Taoisigh have travelled to Northern Ireland to build bridges between the different political parties there. I don’t get that they can’t do the same with SF in the republic.
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In political and economic terms there's no comparison between the Provence of Northern Ireland and the country of Ireland. One is a small Province of the UK with very limited self governance and a tiny and unsustainable economy. The other is a nation state which is economically independent. Comparing the political structures of the two as if there is some sort of equivalence is nonsensical. It is commendable that successive Irish governments helped the UK stop the civil war that was going on there for 40 years but that doesn’t mean our political parties should go into government in this country with the political wing of one of the warring parties from that province of the UK.
 
Leper said:
Micheal Martin doesn’t wish to talk with SF. That’s not OK in modern Ireland.
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I think it's not just OK, it's to be encouraged. A government made up of such diverse views would be a paralysed disaster and achieve nothing before crumbling and forcing another election, likely within months.

A government needs to be formed of partners who can align their goals and aspirations into something workable they can all buy into.
 
Apparently FF/FG are 'looking down their noses' SF voters because they wont talk to them about Govt formation.
A fine populist comment which will go well with their base.
But..
- Didnt SF say no party of the left should prop up FF./FG in Gov ? So basically ruling SF out too ?
- By its own definition, isn't SF looking down its noses at the 40% who voted FF/FG ?
 
Leper said:
People like me collect election leaflets and have a habit of bring “election promises” up whenever I’m canvassed.
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That's easily dismissed by any competent canvasser who will gently explain that those election promises were predicated on his or her party achieving an outright Dail majority - something that hasn't happened in Ireland since Jack lynch in 1977, and is unlikely ever to happen again.
 
I'm in the middle of reading "The Long Game - inside Sinn Féin" by Aoife Moore, and it's both fascinating and scary.

It convinces me that SF are no ordinary political party and that they're a very long way from being fit to be in government "down here".

It scares me that the likes of Bacik and Cairns seem to be moving closer to them - and I write this as a voter who has, in the recent past, given my first preference to both Labour and the SDs. At this point I can't see any justification for doing so again, as a vote for either is, effectively, a vote for Sinn Fein. I really wish that the pair of them would put the good of the country ahead of their lust to be in government for the sake of it.
 
Marsupial said:
It convinces me that SF are no ordinary political party and that they're a very long way from being fit to be in government "down here".
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I'll bite - as long as differing points of view maintain a respectful discourse?
(I'll take your assurances in advance.):)

The comment you have made is already politically loaded. 'fit to be in government', 'down here'.

My perspective, is that SF has morphed itself into any other political party with one significant exception. It is an All-Ireland party.

True, there are some minor parties, Greens, PBP etc who are also All-Ireland, but SF is the only party with significant electoral support throughout the entire island.

Moore's book (I've only read excerpts to be fair) does rely on old stereotypes of militant Irish Republicanism lurking in the background - as if to imply IRA senior citizens are still twitching at the holsters for a gunfight.
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I respect Moore, but this is lame, and poor journalism - gotta sell some units though in fairness! ;)

How if I were to provide you with reputable journalism, dating back from 1994 and before, that accounts the debate within Irish Republicanism about the IRA?

What if that account can quote the SF chairperson, Mitchell McLaughlin, (from Derry, like Moore) at the time stating “The strategy was to get rid of the IRA—not by disowning it, but by making it unnecessary.”

Moore herself knows this. I don't think I can take her 'shadowy men' inferences very seriously when you compare to the actual facts of what has occurred since 1994 ceasefire and its now 2025.
 
Its not my narrative.

It is an archive of reporting of a volume of reputable journalists from Britain and Ireland over a 50yr period.

But, I take your point, whatever tickles the imagination. :)
 
Sister Sara said:
Moore herself knows this. I don't think I can take her 'shadowy men' inferences very seriously when you compare to the actual facts of what has occurred since 1994 ceasefire and its now 2025.
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What actual facts? It wouldn't be the norm for subversive organisations to be that opaque in their operations. Isn't it widely held that the Sinn Fein shows of force at the funerals of terrorists is orchestrated by the puppet masters? Certainly police forces both sides of the border are consistent in that they see the decision making process very much a council matter. If the war was over as they claim, why the need to persist with an army council in a form the intelligence services seem to be able to monitor?
 
Sister Sara said:
My perspective, is that SF has morphed itself into any other political party with one significant exception. It is an All-Ireland party.
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Phenomenal air brushing. Think you might be missing a few:
Ard chomhairle, army council, Northern Bank, diesel, predeliction to suing journalists (would Niall Donald be on their "hit list" now I wonder?)
and on and on and on
 
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