G
Guest
Guest
.
Perhaps if you explain what YOU understand by race it might save a bit of time?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race
Perhaps if you explain what YOU understand by race it might save a bit of time?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race
P
Protocol
Guest
bring them in
I, for one, would welcome as many immigrant workers.
Sure we need more nurses, plumbers, doctors, tilers, blocklayers, software developers, physiotherapists, roofers, dentists and plasterers.
Be they from the EU15 countries, the new EU members, the USA, or Timbuktu, I don't care.
As long as they help with labour shortages and keep a lid on labour costs.
And as long as they don't cost the Irish taxpayer anything (other than the normal PRSI arrangements).
How we are going to house them will be tricky.
I, for one, would welcome as many immigrant workers.
Sure we need more nurses, plumbers, doctors, tilers, blocklayers, software developers, physiotherapists, roofers, dentists and plasterers.
Be they from the EU15 countries, the new EU members, the USA, or Timbuktu, I don't care.
As long as they help with labour shortages and keep a lid on labour costs.
And as long as they don't cost the Irish taxpayer anything (other than the normal PRSI arrangements).
How we are going to house them will be tricky.
P
piggy
Guest
Re: bring them in
Sure we need more...software developers
Do we really need more of us? I thought there was supposed to be a glut of us out there...working as waiters and stuff until the market picked up??
Anyway, aren't all of our jobs dissappearing to India?
Sure we need more...software developers
Do we really need more of us? I thought there was supposed to be a glut of us out there...working as waiters and stuff until the market picked up??
Anyway, aren't all of our jobs dissappearing to India?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: bring them in
> I, for one, would welcome as many immigrant workers.
Fair enough but the original issue is, was or seemed to be about the Government putting in place a suitable immigration and induction/integration system to cater for the arrival of immigrants needed to fill the projected 420,000 new jobs over the next decade as opposed to whether or not these people were needed or welcome. However I think we got a bit sidetracked on this earlier!
> I, for one, would welcome as many immigrant workers.
Fair enough but the original issue is, was or seemed to be about the Government putting in place a suitable immigration and induction/integration system to cater for the arrival of immigrants needed to fill the projected 420,000 new jobs over the next decade as opposed to whether or not these people were needed or welcome. However I think we got a bit sidetracked on this earlier!
E
Eddie
Guest
a question
"As long as they help with labour shortages and keep a lid on labour costs"
Does that include keeping down the cost of your labour Protocol?
"As long as they help with labour shortages and keep a lid on labour costs"
Does that include keeping down the cost of your labour Protocol?
P
Protocol
Guest
I didn't ask for benchmarking
I'm not greedy, I give grinds for well below market rates.
I am all for slower increases in wages.
I'm not greedy, I give grinds for well below market rates.
I am all for slower increases in wages.
P
Protocol
Guest
integration
Yes, integration is important (as Pym Fortyune stressed).
This means flexibility and a willingness to adapt from both sides.
It does not mean changing everything that is Irish just so that we don't offend anybody else.
Example: calls to get rid of the Angelus, "as we are a multicultural country now". Well maybe we are moving that way are, but we are still a Christian country, so we should resist these calls and keep the Angelus.
This is just one small example of Irishness which should not be given up in a politically-correct inspired rush to be "multicultural".
I could go on, but I have a roll of film to collect.
Yes, integration is important (as Pym Fortyune stressed).
This means flexibility and a willingness to adapt from both sides.
It does not mean changing everything that is Irish just so that we don't offend anybody else.
Example: calls to get rid of the Angelus, "as we are a multicultural country now". Well maybe we are moving that way are, but we are still a Christian country, so we should resist these calls and keep the Angelus.
This is just one small example of Irishness which should not be given up in a politically-correct inspired rush to be "multicultural".
I could go on, but I have a roll of film to collect.
G
Guest
Guest
integration
> It does not mean changing everything that is Irish just so that we don't offend anybody else.
Who said that we should?
> but we are still a Christian country, so we should resist these calls and keep the Angelus.
> This is just one small example of Irishness which should not be given up in a politically-correct inspired rush to be "multicultural".
I'm not a Christian and I don't think that makes me or any other non Christian Irish citizen any less Irish than any other citizen, whatever their religious beliefs. I personally would be happy for the Angelus to be dropped for example. In fact I would be happy for a much more complete secularisation (from all forms of religious belief) of Irish Government and society overall. But that's just my opinion and I'm probably still in a minority, at least for now. Anyway, that's another discussion altogether and probably irrelevant to the original subject of this topic...
> It does not mean changing everything that is Irish just so that we don't offend anybody else.
Who said that we should?
> but we are still a Christian country, so we should resist these calls and keep the Angelus.
> This is just one small example of Irishness which should not be given up in a politically-correct inspired rush to be "multicultural".
I'm not a Christian and I don't think that makes me or any other non Christian Irish citizen any less Irish than any other citizen, whatever their religious beliefs. I personally would be happy for the Angelus to be dropped for example. In fact I would be happy for a much more complete secularisation (from all forms of religious belief) of Irish Government and society overall. But that's just my opinion and I'm probably still in a minority, at least for now. Anyway, that's another discussion altogether and probably irrelevant to the original subject of this topic...
T
Tizona
Guest
Angelus
If they build a mosque next door to you will you expect them to ban the broadcasting of the muslim Call to Prayer?
I'd appreciate a serious answer.
If they build a mosque next door to you will you expect them to ban the broadcasting of the muslim Call to Prayer?
I'd appreciate a serious answer.
J
joesoapy
Guest
Angelus
Good call on the angelus
I was just laughing at it the other day
Is it any wonder why Irish people are occasioanlly protrayed as devout Catholic weirdos on UK television
Not that I have an opinion on whether it should be dropeed or kept
But it is does come accross as a throw back to fifties Ireland
Good call on the angelus
I was just laughing at it the other day
Is it any wonder why Irish people are occasioanlly protrayed as devout Catholic weirdos on UK television
Not that I have an opinion on whether it should be dropeed or kept
But it is does come accross as a throw back to fifties Ireland
B
Bridget
Guest
not expert on matters religious.......
I believe the Angelus is a Catholic rather than Christian tradition. I wonder how the Protestants feel about it? and the Irish Jews?
Personally amn't a Christian but quite like it..... and these days it's broadcast as a moment of reflection, which is well worthwhile. (And they got rid of that awful "Who farted?" sequence!)
Statues of the Virgin Mary littering hospitals and schools now do offend me.
I believe the Angelus is a Catholic rather than Christian tradition. I wonder how the Protestants feel about it? and the Irish Jews?
Personally amn't a Christian but quite like it..... and these days it's broadcast as a moment of reflection, which is well worthwhile. (And they got rid of that awful "Who farted?" sequence!)
Statues of the Virgin Mary littering hospitals and schools now do offend me.
A
Allah Akhbar
Guest
P
Prometheus2
Guest
Angeles
I agree with you Bridget. I would'nt be a big fan of statues of the Virgin Mary in schools myself. In fact I think religion and education should be kept seperate altogether.
As for the Angeles I don't see any real problem. Im not a very religious person but if I happen to have RTE1 on at the time I would occasionaly use it as a brief moment to stop what Im doing and enjoy a minute of peace. In this day and age its not often we get a chance to do that.
I agree with you Bridget. I would'nt be a big fan of statues of the Virgin Mary in schools myself. In fact I think religion and education should be kept seperate altogether.
As for the Angeles I don't see any real problem. Im not a very religious person but if I happen to have RTE1 on at the time I would occasionaly use it as a brief moment to stop what Im doing and enjoy a minute of peace. In this day and age its not often we get a chance to do that.
G
Guest
Guest
Angelus
> If they build a mosque next door to you will you expect them to ban the broadcasting of the muslim Call to Prayer?
As it happens, one of the planning conditions for the mosque in Clonskeagh was that they would not broadcast the call to prayer publicly. Oddly enough the Greek Orthodox church near where I live seems to be allowed to ring their bells and broadcast chants from time to time without any hassle. But, as the Angelus suggests, the rules in this country may be different for Christians.
> As for the Angeles I don't see any real problem. Im not a very religious person but if I happen to have RTE1 on at the time I would occasionaly use it as a brief moment to stop what Im doing and enjoy a minute of peace. In this day and age its not often we get a chance to do that.
I don't see it as a BIG problem either but I would be happier to see it ditched rather than being retained. As individuals we can make time for reflection if we really want to and, in my opinion, should not have to depend on a largely atavistic and sectarian public signal to do so.
> If they build a mosque next door to you will you expect them to ban the broadcasting of the muslim Call to Prayer?
As it happens, one of the planning conditions for the mosque in Clonskeagh was that they would not broadcast the call to prayer publicly. Oddly enough the Greek Orthodox church near where I live seems to be allowed to ring their bells and broadcast chants from time to time without any hassle. But, as the Angelus suggests, the rules in this country may be different for Christians.
> As for the Angeles I don't see any real problem. Im not a very religious person but if I happen to have RTE1 on at the time I would occasionaly use it as a brief moment to stop what Im doing and enjoy a minute of peace. In this day and age its not often we get a chance to do that.
I don't see it as a BIG problem either but I would be happier to see it ditched rather than being retained. As individuals we can make time for reflection if we really want to and, in my opinion, should not have to depend on a largely atavistic and sectarian public signal to do so.
T
Tizona
Guest
Angelus
So what? Its a Christian country. Rules are different for Christians in Muslim countries too!
So what? Its a Christian country. Rules are different for Christians in Muslim countries too!
P
piggy
Guest
Re: Angelus
So what? Its a Christian country.
Once upon a time perhaps. We are now a muti-cultural society which supports and welcomes people of all denominations and religious beliefs.
So what? Its a Christian country.
Once upon a time perhaps. We are now a muti-cultural society which supports and welcomes people of all denominations and religious beliefs.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Angelus
> So what? Its a Christian country.
In what way precisely? I know that the majority of citizens are (or at least claim to be) practicing Christians and that the the Constitution mentions God (not a specifically Christian concept or belief) several times and This post will be deleted if not edited immediately Christ once (in the preamble and not the Constitution proper) but, in spite of these, I personally don't consider Ireland to be a Christian state as such.
> Rules are different for Christians in Muslim countries too!
So what? That is irrelevant to my points. Some other countries do all sorts of other things and it doesn't necessarily mean that we should reciprocate. :\
> So what? Its a Christian country.
In what way precisely? I know that the majority of citizens are (or at least claim to be) practicing Christians and that the the Constitution mentions God (not a specifically Christian concept or belief) several times and This post will be deleted if not edited immediately Christ once (in the preamble and not the Constitution proper) but, in spite of these, I personally don't consider Ireland to be a Christian state as such.
> Rules are different for Christians in Muslim countries too!
So what? That is irrelevant to my points. Some other countries do all sorts of other things and it doesn't necessarily mean that we should reciprocate. :\
E
Eddie
Guest
really?
" We are now a muti-cultural society which supports and welcomes people of all denominations and religious beliefs. "
So why should a muslim be offended if they hear the Angelus on TV twice a day for a minute?.If I went to one of the many Muslim countries I'd expect to see and hear signs of their religion.The vast majority of this country are catholic so its not incorrect to call Ireland a christian society.
" We are now a muti-cultural society which supports and welcomes people of all denominations and religious beliefs. "
So why should a muslim be offended if they hear the Angelus on TV twice a day for a minute?.If I went to one of the many Muslim countries I'd expect to see and hear signs of their religion.The vast majority of this country are catholic so its not incorrect to call Ireland a christian society.
P
piggy
Guest
Re: really?
I'd expect to see and hear signs of their religion
The vast majority of this country are catholic so its not incorrect to call Ireland a christian society
As <blank> has already alluded to...we are not a Christian state, despite the fact that a large number of people in this country are Catholics.
What does "christian society" mean to you?
I'd expect to see and hear signs of their religion
The vast majority of this country are catholic so its not incorrect to call Ireland a christian society
As <blank> has already alluded to...we are not a Christian state, despite the fact that a large number of people in this country are Catholics.
What does "christian society" mean to you?
T
Tizona
Guest
Christianity
Even if nobody in Ireland went to mass, even if the church or Christ were removed from the constitution, this country will always be a Christian country by the simple fact that its entire value system, parliamentary system, legal system, economic system and its very history define us as a Christian - Western - Democratic society...and like it or not thats what we are and nothing will ever change it.
In point of fact though, even if the contributors to this board are all non Christians, you represent a tiny minority of the population of the country. You are disproportionately represented here, so don't make the mistake of congratulating yourself on the removal of Christian values from Irish society in general just yet, or any time in the near future.
We are far from it.
Even if nobody in Ireland went to mass, even if the church or Christ were removed from the constitution, this country will always be a Christian country by the simple fact that its entire value system, parliamentary system, legal system, economic system and its very history define us as a Christian - Western - Democratic society...and like it or not thats what we are and nothing will ever change it.
In point of fact though, even if the contributors to this board are all non Christians, you represent a tiny minority of the population of the country. You are disproportionately represented here, so don't make the mistake of congratulating yourself on the removal of Christian values from Irish society in general just yet, or any time in the near future.
We are far from it.