How we view international news; double standards

Purple said:
Okay, so Where did I suggest there was an anti-Jewish conspiracy?
You do know the difference between a conspiracy and a bias, right?
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Did you not read my previous comment?
I interpreted your previous comment to suggest that you believe there is a bias in Irish media against Israel, because of something to do with being Jewish.
It is not beyond the realms of imagination then to conclude that those who hold a bias against Israel may conspire to highlight and report events occurring in Israel more so than others, is it?
But rather than get bogged down in ;

Purple said:
another plethora of comments and answers in which you set yourself up as the righteous inquisitor en chief focusing on the ever more minute dissection of specific examples rather than the bigger picture discussion.
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I will glady accept that you do not consider there to be a conspiracy in the media against Israel on the basis that it has something to do with it being Jewish, but rather there is only a bias.
So other than your speculative assumption that there is bias, do you have anything else to back up that assumption?
 
Purple said:
Gaza is under siege by Israel and Egypt. If either party lifted their bit of the siege then the blockade would be over. Where are the protests on the Egyptian border? Where are the opinion pieces about how the Egyptians are treating their Arab brothers and sisters?
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What do you mean, hold the Arabs to the same standards as white\westernized people???
Such a thing is beyond the capability of most left liberals who criticise Israel and are blind to racist view they have of Arabs as incapable of moral improvement.
 
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odyssey06 said:
What do you mean, hold the Arabs to the same standards as white\westernized people???
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Thats somewhat odd to say the least?
It is white/westernised people that have been plundering the Arab world for the last century. Carving up regions and wealth, overthrowing democratically elected governments, imposing regime change under false pretences, imposing crippling economic sanctions against governments that dont toe the line, getting into bed with governments that do - regardless of their human rights abuses.

And no-one is ever held to account.

The only standard set by Western governments in the Middle East is, "what is best for our self-interest", that is all.
 
TheBigShort said:
Thats somewhat odd to say the least?
It is white/westernised people that have been plundering the Arab world for the last century. Carving up regions and wealth, overthrowing democratically elected governments, imposing regime change under false pretences, imposing crippling economic sanctions against governments that dont toe the line, getting into bed with governments that do - regardless of their human rights abuses.
And no-one is ever held to account.
The only standard set by Western governments in the Middle East is, "what is best for our self-interest", that is all.
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So it's ok then for Arab goverments to do whatever they want? Without criticism?
Arab governments are conducting human rights abuses but you won't criticise them only any western allies they might have?
What standard do Arab governments set?
 
odyssey06 said:
So it's ok then for Arab goverments to do whatever they want? Without criticism?
Arab governments are conducting human rights abuses but you won't criticise them only any western allies they might have?
What standard do Arab governments set?
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I condemn all governments that engage in systematic and/or deliberate human rights abuses regardless of their ethnicity, religion or any other defining characteristic. Regardless of whether that is the Irish government, UK, France, US, Israel, Russia, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Syria or whoever.

Do you?

However, this topic is not about me. Instead it is about an alleged, or perceived bias in the Irish media.
I would accept that there appears to be more coverage of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict than other conflicts although that is just my perception.
I am a long way from thinking that there is bias against Israel, let alone that if it does exist that it has anything to do with being Jewish.
 
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B/S that's a long list of bad guys. I think I asked you this before but which society/nation do you admire and wish us to follow?
 
TheBigShort said:
I condemn all governments that engage in systematic and/or deliberate human rights abuses regardless of their ethnicity, religion or any other defining characteristic. Regardless of whether that is the Irish government, UK, France, US, Israel, Russia, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Syria or whoever.
Do you?
However, this topic is not about me. Instead it is about an alleged, or perceived bias in the Irish media.
I would accept that there appears to be more coverage of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict than other conflicts although that is just my perception.
I am a long way from thinking that there is bias against Israel, let alone that if it does exist that it has anything to do with being Jewish.
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There is a blatant anti Israel bias in the mainstream Irish media. Clearly without a doubt Israel are held to a standard that does not apply to their neighbours.

I think some of it is anti-western, and some of it is anti-semitic and some of it is naive, in that people don't seem to realise that a country with free press will have more critical information about a government coming to light, and that a country with an unfree one will cover up and hide their actions. So yes Western governments should be criticised when it is justified, but we should also remember that sometimes non-Western governments are much better at pulling the wool over the eyes of journalists and their own people.
 
odyssey06 said:
There is a blatant anti Israel bias in the mainstream Irish media
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On what basis have come to this view?

odyssey06 said:
Clearly without a doubt Israel are held to a standard that does not apply to their neighbours.
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Held to a higher standard by whom? What sanctions are placed on Israel for its abuses, both humanitarian and of its continued and persistent breaches of UN resolutions with regard to its expanding occupation of Palestinian territories?
What accountability will there be for the slaughter of 62 Palestinians, and hundreds more shot, for protesting their grievances?
Is the price of protest to be shot dead?

Israel can only consider itself to be held to a 'higher standard' when it is accountable for its abuses. It is not accountable.
Its perceived higher accountability probably stems from the fact that it relies on international support from EU, Russia and primarily US for its continued existence.
As I mentioned before, if the populations of Europe, particularly UK and France, and the population of US turns on its political establishments to put the Palestinian/Israel conflict at the top of the agenda, then the very existence of Israel could be in jeopardy.

That is why I believe mostly that the Palestinian/Israel conflict receives more attention in ours (and other Western countries) than other conflicts occurring in the world.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
B/S that's a long list of bad guys. I think I asked you this before but which society/nation do you admire and wish us to follow?
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With respect, I dont really buy into to flag-waving or nationhood at all (granted its convenient for the World Cup and song contests). I believe we all have much more in common with each other than what we differ fundamentally.
That is idealistic, but so is flag waving and national anthems.
But given the option of choosing to live, work, raise a family etc, Ireland and/or Britain are societies I admire. I fall short of wishing to follow anyone, we should lead at every opportunity.

After that, perhaps you could stay on topic?
 
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TheBigShort said:
On what basis have come to this view?
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On the basis of paying attention to the world and the Irish media's reaction to it for the last 20 - 30 years.

Is the price of protest to be shot dead?
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It was not a peaceful protest. If they don't want to get shot don't start a riot beside armed soldiers, that advice, cynical as it may be, applies to anywhere in the Middle East.
 
TheBigShort said:
Israel can only consider itself to be held to a 'higher standard' when it is accountable for its abuses. It is not accountable. Its perceived higher accountability probably stems from the fact that it relies on international support from EU, Russia and primarily US for its continued existence. As I mentioned before, if the populations of Europe, particularly UK and France, and the population of US turns on its political establishments to put the Palestinian/Israel conflict at the top of the agenda, then the very existence of Israel could be in jeopardy.
That is why I believe mostly that the Palestinian/Israel conflict receives more attention in ours (and other Western countries) than other conflicts occurring in the world.
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Devoting more attention to it is a form of bias. It creates a misleading impression about Israel and the Middle East which in turns leads to more critical attention. The media's job is to report what is going on not direct crusades directed at one particular state.
 
odyssey06 said:
On the basis of paying attention to the world and the Irish media's reaction to it for the last 20 - 30 years.
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Should the media just ignore it, or down play it? It is in the news today again. It being reported that Hamas fired up to 50 rockets into Israel with Israel responding with air strikes.
It is being reported that UN Security Council is meeting to vote on a proposed US resolution condemning Hamas for rocket attacks.
Im failing to see any bias in the reporting.

odyssey06 said:
It was not a peaceful protest. If they don't want to get shot don't start a riot beside armed soldiers, that advice, cynical as it may be, applies to anywhere in the Middle East.
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What sanctions or accountability will Israel face for the shooting dead of dozens of unarmed protesters?
 
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odyssey06 said:
There is a blatant anti Israel bias in the mainstream Irish media. Clearly without a doubt Israel are held to a standard that does not apply to their neighbours.

I think some of it is anti-western, and some of it is anti-semitic and some of it is naive, in that people don't seem to realise that a country with free press will have more critical information about a government coming to light, and that a country with an unfree one will cover up and hide their actions. So yes Western governments should be criticised when it is justified, but we should also remember that sometimes non-Western governments are much better at pulling the wool over the eyes of journalists and their own people.
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So Israel being held to a higher standard than Iran is a bad thing??? I would hope they are being held to a higher standard if they are as democratic as they claim to be. Do you really think people and journalists are stupid when it comes to places like Iran and Iraq and don't see what is happening. Journalists have been reporting human abuses in these places for years. The problem is we know nothing can be done unless we decide to invade and topple Iran like we did in Iraq and nobody wants that. So there is plenty of criticism but it goes nowhere. The fact that people think that by criticising Israel, they might listen and make a difference is a good thing. It means that people still think it is an open democratic country receptive to concerns by the international community. However, they make that view hard to defend sometimes. It is not anti-Israel bias. It is not ignorant or naivety. It is simply applying the same standards to Israel as we apply to the US and the allies in recent years when we saw prisoner abuse, civilian deaths, rapes, torture etc and there was public uproar across the world. That's the price you pay for being a civilised country.

Israel might not like it but the fact of the matter is that are an occupying force in Gaza. They mightn't agree and you mightn't agree but the UN says they are and most of the international community says they are. And being an occupying force has responsibilities towards civilian populations whether they like it or not. Terrorist attacks are deplorable and Israel has a right to defend itself but that right doesn't permit any country to stand on ordinary people's civil liberties and unless you are telling me that every man woman and child in the Gaza strip is a terrorist, there are civilians suffering because of the actions of their own leaders and the actions of Israel. Having sympathy for them doesn't mean you are anti-Israel. The brutal truth is that it is pointless looking to Hamas to protect their own by doing the right thing so we have to look to Israel to be bigger, to be better, to be calmer, to be more constructive, to be more honest, to be fairer, to be more responsible. Mightn't be fair on Israel but not much in the world is actually fair.
 
Sunny said:
Israel might not like it but the fact of the matter is that are an occupying force in Gaza. They mightn't agree and you mightn't agree but the UN says they are and most of the international community says they are. And being an occupying force has responsibilities towards civilian populations whether they like it or not. Terrorist attacks are deplorable and Israel has a right to defend itself but that right doesn't permit any country to stand on ordinary people's civil liberties and unless you are telling me that every man woman and child in the Gaza strip is a terrorist, there are civilians suffering because of the actions of their own leaders and the actions of Israel. Having sympathy for them doesn't mean you are anti-Israel. The brutal truth is that it is pointless looking to Hamas to protect their own by doing the right thing so we have to look to Israel to be bigger, to be better, to be calmer, to be more constructive, to be more honest, to be fairer, to be more responsible. Mightn't be fair on Israel but not much in the world is actually fair.
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You have the nous to draw the distinction between amenable to criticism and worthy of criticism, but I don't think that is true of the mainstream media here.
It is a form of bias and a double standard from the media.

But, the perception they create with this unfairness is that Iran et al is not doing anything that should be criticised, and that only Israel is.
Other countries are getting a free pass.
Over time this has generated the perception in Ireland that Israel is always and the only bad guy.

By all means criticise Israel, if you also criticise similar behaviour elsewhere, and with full recognition of the nature of the enemy they face and the challenges it presents.
The Irish media do not.
 
odyssey06 said:
It is a form of bias and a double standard from the media.

But, the perception they create with this unfairness is that Iran et al is not doing anything that should be criticised, and that only Israel is.
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I must be living in a parallel universe.
Israel and Gaza is in the Irish media again today. Reports of indiscriminate rocket fire from Hamas into Israel followed by targeted air strikes by Israel.
The UN is meeting to discuss a proposed US resolution to condemn Hamas.

Where is the bias in the Irish media today? Im not seeing it.

As for comparisons between Iran and Israel, Iran is facing economic sanctions not because it wasn't complying with the nuclear weapons program deal, but because it was complying! And Trump thought the deal too soft so tore it up.
On the other hand, Israel, it is alleged, has its own undeclared nuclear arsenal. Its weapons stockpiles are not subject to scrutiny nor inspection. It faces no sanctions whatsoever.
When Iranians protest against their government for economic and social hardship, the US declares its support for the protesters. When Palestinians protest against Israel for legitimate grievances the US stands with Israels slaughter of protestors.
When Russia is alleged, on very dubious grounds, to have used CW in Salisbury, the Irish government responds by expelling a Russian diplomat!
When Israel shoots dozens dead and injures hundreds, it gets a finger-wagging!!

The fact that the Irish media reports this, is in no plausible way, a bias against Israel.
 
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