The answer is nobody influenced the US president and President Trump did not change US foreign policy. In 1995 the US Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act to provide for the relocation of the United States Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ45/html/PLAW-104publ45.htm. This was under Bill Clinton's presidency. President Trump didn't change US policy on Jerusalem. He simply implemented it.J Early this year, on foot of Israeli lobbying, acting against the will of the UN, President Trump announced that the US would recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Who could have influenced the US President to change US foreign policy like that?
Not as simplistic as this;That's a very simplistic view of complex issues.
I support his anti-war, peace pursuing initiatives
I agree, but supporting the Islamic Human Rights Commission does make you anti-semitic.Being 'anti-Israel' does not equate to anti-Semitic.
No. Protesting at disproportionate use of force by the IDF in the killing of combatants who mingle with protesters is also not anti-Israeli. Failing to condemn murder and terrorism by those seeking to destroy Israel is anti-semitic. It's not that hard to see or make these distinctions.Also, when you say 'anti-Israel', do you mean against the existence of the Israeli state, or against Israeli policies of occupation, apartheid, forced eviction, murder of protesters and medics?
The answer is nobody influenced the US president and President Trump did not change US foreign policy. In 1995 the US Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act to provide for the relocation of the United States Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ45/html/PLAW-104publ45.htm. This was under Bill Clinton's presidency. President Trump didn't change US policy on Jerusalem. He simply implemented it.
I agree, but supporting the Islamic Human Rights Commission does make you anti-semitic.
Failing to condemn murder and terrorism by those seeking to destroy Israel is anti-semitic. It's not that hard to see or make these distinctions.
Not as simplistic as this;
There's no arguing with someone with such simplistic and extremist views on the topic.The Israeli state, in its current guise of oppression, murder, terrorism, apartheid of the Palestinian people and Arabs is arguably anti-Semitic.
No, but you've made no counter-argument against those who have made valid accusations and asked valid questions of him and many in his party. I agree that the label of "anti-semitic" is thrown around far to quickly when people question the actions of Israel and its move towards fundamentalism. I started this thread by asking why Israel gets so much more media attention than its neighbours. Your post above just reinforced that point. If Israel is oppressive, murderous, engages in terrorism and oppresses its Palestinian population then those same accusations (and then some) can be levelled at most, and maybe all, of its neighbours.True, but I haven't made any dubious accusations against Corbyn being a supporter, or apologist of terrorism.
No, but you've made no counter-argument against those who have made valid accusations and asked valid questions of him and many in his party. I agree that the label of "anti-semitic" is thrown around far to quickly when people question the actions of Israel and its move towards fundamentalism
I started this thread by asking why Israel gets so much more media attention than its neighbours. Your post above just reinforced that point. If Israel is oppressive, murderous, engages in terrorism and oppresses its Palestinian population then those same accusations (and then some) can be levelled at most, and maybe all, of its neighbours.
You, and Mr. Corbyn, are fast to criticise Israel but slow to criticise those neighbouring countries.
Failing to condemn murder and terrorism by those seeking to destroy Israel is anti-semitic. It's not that hard to see or make these distinctions.
No its not anti-Semitic. Its anti-Israel.
It is reasonable, in the absence of any other explanation, to attribute that to an anti-Israeli bias and therefore to attribute that bias to anti-semitism.
They didn't. The United States is nobody's stooge. An overwhelming majority in both houses of Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act. Most states of the USA have negligible Jewish populations and have little or no dealings with Israel. It just beggars belief to suggest that Israel could somehow put pressure on a majority of senators and congressmen to pass this act if they did not wish to do so. They passed the act because it was consistent with US policy that American embassies are based in the city designated by the host country as its capital.Thats fair enough. But the point still stands. How does a country like Israel, get a country like the US to pass an Act like that?
Or maybe it was the Zionist bankers and financiers on Wall Street who coerced them into doing it? After all they are all part of the international Jewish conspiracy and they do control the media and generate all that fake news...They didn't. The United States is nobody's stooge. An overwhelming majority in both houses of Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act. Most states of the USA have negligible Jewish populations and have little or no dealings with Israel. It just beggars belief to suggest that Israel could somehow put pressure on a majority of senators and congressmen to pass this act if they did not wish to do so. They passed the act because it was consistent with US policy that American embassies are based in the city designated by the host country as its capital.
An overwhelming majority in both houses of Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act. Most states of the USA have negligible Jewish populations and have little or no dealings with Israel.
Or maybe it was the Zionist bankers and financiers on Wall Street who coerced them into doing it? After all they are all part of the international Jewish conspiracy and they do control the media and generate all that fake news...
Maybe people in the USA look at the situation in the region and, despite its many flaws, still support Israel. Maybe other intelligent people form different opinions and hold different views to you. The notion that for someone to disagree with you, to draw different conclusions to yours, they must have been duped or they must be stupid is supremely arrogant.Well it certainly wasnt the Jewish population, as most States in the US have barely any dealings with Israel.
So who was it?
Which lobbyist(s) pushed forward a bill that passed in Congress back in 1995, that is explicitly in line with Israeli aspirations, and pursued each US administration since to enact that policy?
It had to be lobbyists as we know the Jewish population is negligible and most States have little or no dealings with Israel.
The notion that for someone to disagree with you, to draw different conclusions to yours, they must have been duped or they must be stupid is supremely arrogant.
Have you entertained the notion that you are being subtly duped by an anti-Israeli left wing media, that maybe the British Labour Party and the newspaper that supports it is in fact anti-semitic?
So it's arrogant to suggest that it's arrogant to suggest that people who disagree with you have been duped or are stupid? You'll have to explain that one to me.What a stupid and supremely arrogant thing to say.
But not Iran or Syria or Saudi ARabia or Egypt or Turkey or Russia or Cuba or Venezuela etc.?Im not anti-Israel. Im anti-oppression, state murder, apartheid etc. Whether its Israeli, South African, British, Irish or wherever.
Maybe your definition of anti semitic is different to the internationally recognised one, the same one that Jeremy Corbyn refused to accept. Maybe you are using the same definition he uses?As for the British Labour Party being anti-Semitic, like I have said, I have not seen, read, or heard anything of any substance to lead me to believe that this is true.
I think the bar is set very high.Im open to be convinced otherwise.
Okay, so it's all part of the international Jewish conspiracy and suggesting that people in the USA may have just formed different opinions to you and haven't been duped is arrogant. Got it. Thanks.So now that we know that the Jewish population in the US is negligible and that most States have any little dealings with Israel.
Is it possible therefore that it is devote Jewish people with strong ties within US and Israeli political affairs that enables the political aspirations of Israel to feature so prominently on US political affairs - the Jerusalem Embassy Act 1995, being an example?
This BBC report would at least imply so
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-44120428
"In this case, his base also lobbied hard for the move. That included right-wing American Jews whose message was amplified by the conservative orthodox Jews dominating Mr Trump's inner circle."
Have you thought about appearing on Russia Today? George Galloway has (had?) a show on it. I'm sure you're a big fan of his.Ultimately my point is that Israel, or supporters of Israel, have far more influence over US political affairs than Russia, or supporters of Russia.
If there is meddling in US political affairs, lobbyists for Israel would be a good place to start I would have thought, more so than Russia.
Maybe other intelligent people form different opinions and hold different views to you. The notion that for someone to disagree with you, to draw different conclusions to yours, they must have been duped or they must be stupid is supremely arrogant.
But not Iran or Syria or Saudi ARabia or Egypt or Turkey or Russia or Cuba or Venezuela etc.?
I think the bar is set very high.
Okay, so it's all part of the international Jewish conspiracy and suggesting that people in the USA may have just formed different opinions to you and haven't been duped is arrogant.
Have you thought about appearing on Russia Today? George Galloway has (had?) a show on it. I'm sure you're a big fan of his
No I didn't. I said;You inferred that I suggested that anyone who disagrees with me is stupid.
The notion that for someone to disagree with you, to draw different conclusions to yours, they must have been duped or they must be stupid is supremely arrogant.
And yet you reserve all your bile for Israel... which was the point of this thread.Them too, all States actually. Its not hard to figure.
Who is throwing around labels of anti-semitism simply as a consequence of disagreeing with Israeli policy towards protesters, people praying and medics doing their job? You really need to quit with the strawman arguments. That twice in one post now.As so it should be. If you are going to throw around labels of anti-semitism simply as a consequence of disagreeing with Israeli policy towards protesters, people praying, medics doing their job, then yes, the bar should be set high.
You also said;What are you talking about "Jewish conspiracy"?
I merely posted a BBC article that infers that Trumps policies are influenced by members of Jewish Orthodox community, which are in line with Israeli (legitimate) aspiration to have Jerusalem as its capital.
You totally disregard the idea that the US public simply support Israel, despite its failings, because it is still the closest thing to a functioning liberal democracy in the Middle East? I suggested that was arrogant on your part. You then said that me even saying that was arrogant. You still haven't explained why you think so, despite my request that you do so.Well it certainly wasnt the Jewish population, as most States in the US have barely any dealings with Israel.
So who was it?
Which lobbyist(s) pushed forward a bill that passed in Congress back in 1995, that is explicitly in line with Israeli aspirations, and pursued each US administration since to enact that policy?
It had to be lobbyists as we know the Jewish population is negligible and most States have little or no dealings with Israel.
No.Relative to Russias influence over US policy, I would consider Israel to have greater influence over US policy, wouldn't you?
There are lots of looneys who are excellent orators. I put him in the same category as David Icke.No desire to appear on it, but I do like George. I don't always agree, but no doubt he is intelligent, informed and also an excellent orator.
And yet you reject the suggestion that you think there's an international Jewish conspiracy.I personally think that the Russian 'interference' in US elections or political affairs is hyperbole relative to the interference, or influence Israel has in US political affairs.
And yet you reserve all your bile for Israel... which was the point of this thread.
You totally disregard the idea that the US public simply support Israel, despite its failings, because it is still the closest thing to a functioning liberal democracy in the Middle East?
And yet you reject the suggestion that you think there's an international Jewish conspiracy.
Yes, and that's all there is to it.If you are stating to me that there is significant public support for Israel in the US, which I believe there is, then that significant support will/should translate into political support?
Why are you attempting to construct a false dichotomy? There is widespread support for Israel in the USA because they support Israel, not because they are Jewish or are influenced or controlled by Jewish money of media.On the other hand, im told by another poster, that the Jewish population in the US is negligible. That most US states have no engagement with Israel.
So which is it?
Yes. You are getting it now.Is there significant support for Israel amongst US public, which in itself can influence political affairs at Congress?
Because there is widespread support for israel. You answered this question in your previous sentence.Or is there negligible Jewish influence over US political affairs, in which case, how does an Act like Jerusalem Embassy Act, explicit in its support for Israel, get passed through Congress and enacted by the President?
Okay. So there is no lobbying or dark influencing, just a public support for Israel, based on the geopolitical factors in the region. On that we can agree.I dont think there is an "international conspiracy", I simply believe Israel, through widespread public support in the US, is better placed to influence or interfere (call it what you will) US foreign policy in the Middle East.
I think there is a strong anti-Iranian bias in the US media, just as there is a strong anti-Israeli bias in the Irish media. I think the USA pulling out of the Iran Nuclear deal was a very bad idea.Aside from Jerusalem as being the capital of Israel, the US also tore up the Iranian nuclear deal, despite protestations from the EU.
Maybe this is just coincidence, but tearing up that deal also aligned itself with Israeli policy toward Iran.