I couldn't agree more - where unions have got a foothold they have emasculated businesses.who knew the damage unions of today can bring to a great company.
Solely responsible? Really? Would you like to give some examples of where/when this has happened please?And in the public sector they are solely responsible for preventing efficient service delivery.
It'd be easier to give examples of where it hasn't happened.Solely responsible? Really? Would you like to give some examples of where/when this has happened please?
In all seriousness, isn't that what they're supposed to do? Next, you'll be telling me that the IFA exists for the sole benefit of farmers......
The PS unions exists for the sole benefit of the people working in it .....
Right, I see. Same goes for IBEC too, I suppose? Chambers of Commerce too, while we're at it?They are subversive organisations, should be dissolved, their assets seized and their leaders exiled.
Absolutely, the function of a Trade Union is to get as much reward for a little work as possible for its members. In the case of the Public Sector unions they do an excellent job as they have clearly succeeded in that endeavour.In all seriousness, isn't that what they're supposed to do? Next, you'll be telling me that the IFA exists for the sole benefit of farmers.
IBEC, certainly. Same as the IFA, ISME etc. They, along with all Trade Unions, are vested interest groups that act for their members alone, often against the common good. A strong government would act to counter those influences. Unfortunately our system elects weak governments.Right, I see. Same goes for IBEC too, I suppose? Chambers of Commerce too, while we're at it?
After reading some of the posts here, I find myself strangely grateful.Unfortunately our system elects weak governments.
Yep, what we have might be better than the alternative.After reading some of the posts here, I find myself strangely grateful.
Just another terrific observation from Purple the Greatest Recruiter to Trade Unionism on this forum. Pity, once again (and as usual) he got it wrong.Absolutely, the function of a Trade Union is to get as much reward for a little work as possible for its members. In the case of the Public Sector unions they do an excellent job as they have clearly succeeded in that endeavour.
Is it possible that your information is 20-30 years out of date? I'm struggling to recall any specific examples in recent memory that match to your descriptions there. Can you give any specific incidents that have happened in recent years?It'd be easier to give examples of where it hasn't happened.
There is absolutely no need for unions in the public sector - Larkin could never have envisaged the statutory protections and benefits they enjoy.
Staff working where they've historically worked and want to continue working rather than where they're needed.
Health services such as MRIs only being available 9-5pm creating a huge waiting list and years to get a scan.
Staff refusing to undertake additional training during the working day unless they get a pay increase for "upskilling.
Avaricious unions holding the general public to ransom by withdrawing essential services when they decide to go on strike, ostensibly for "health and safety", but in reality always for even more money for their cosseted already overpaid members.
The PS unions exists for the sole benefit of the people working in it discommoding the hapless public they purport to serve in the process.
They are subversive organisations, should be dissolved, their assets seized and their leaders exiled.
So what's the function of a Trade Union if it's not to represent the interests of its members?Just another terrific observation from Purple the Greatest Recruiter to Trade Unionism on this forum. Pity, once again (and as usual) he got it wrong.
Really? This argument has been done to death in other threads, but we already have the second highest number of nurses in the EU, for the youngest population. We spend way more than most others on healthcare and yet have worse outcomes. How do you feel paying them even more to do even less could be a good thing?As a patient I would like stronger trade unions in healthcare so the people looking after me can do their job properly.
And yet they won't reform contracts, payroll or work practices that cost the State hundreds of millions. Have you need to Naas Hospital A&E? Go in and spend a few hours sitting there. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious. The chaotic and incompetent way the Nurses run the place has to be seem to be believed.I regularly hear people complaining about civil/public service, alleged inefficiency, etc. but they don't give examples. The public servants I know enjoy their jobs and work hard.
If you take healthcare alone you can see that unions are roundly ignored. Are people aware that HSE doctors still work illegal hours?
Junior doctors did those kind of hours, mainly Interns. SHO's also worked crazy hours (many still do). Neither Interns or SHO's are operating on anyone. Registrars do simple procedures, if approved to do so by the Consultant they work under. Let's not make stuff up. They are certainly writing prescriptions and monitoring patients when way too tired to do so but that's because Consultants won't do their job and when those NCHD's become Consultants they don't do their job either.When I started out we did 120+ hours a week, with shifts of up to 36 hours on site, usually with only a couple of hours of broken sleep. It was outrageously unsafe for patients and staff. Imagine being operated on by someone who has been awake since the previous day and has not had time to eat. The IMO brought strike action a few years ago to restrict maximum shift length to "only" 24 hours - and that was considered a victory!
I wouldn't clean out septic tanks for a living but some people so. Horses for courses.Despite that agreement the HSE is still breaking the law, running roughshod over the EWTD, not paying doctors overtime, etc. Nursing is similar - I would not do their job for love nor money.
That's an oxymoron.As a patient I would like stronger trade unions in healthcare so the people looking after me can do their job properly.
Are you holding the Trade Unions responsible for the running of the health services?Really? This argument has been done to death in other threads, but we already have the second highest number of nurses in the EU, for the youngest population. We spend way more than most others on healthcare and yet have worse outcomes. How do you feel paying them even more to do even less could be a good thing?
Where are you getting that from?Are you holding the Trade Unions responsible for the running of the health services?
I never mentioned pay rises and in all my years on the trade union side we rarely pushed for it. We can't even get paid fully for the work we do at the current rates. In fact we are always asking for fewer hours which would mean much lower pay. Everyone in my unit would rather work in better conditions for less pay and that's my experience in every HSE hospital I have worked in. The idea that healthcare workers are after big pay rises is a strawman argument that only helps the DoH and HSE deflect from the fact that they are unable to run hospitals safely.Really? This argument has been done to death in other threads, but we already have the second highest number of nurses in the EU, for the youngest population. We spend way more than most others on healthcare and yet have worse outcomes. How do you feel paying them even more to do even less could be a good thing?
I didn't either. No one here said staff seeking pay rises was the issue, the issue is the horrendous waste and inefficiency that is currently in the system.I never mentioned pay rises and in all my years on the trade union side we rarely pushed for it.
Why is it you think that Eurostat would use a different criteria for Ireland than the rest of the EU???As several people have have pointed out many times on this site and others the number of nurses in Ireland is not the 2nd highest in the EU when you actually look at the data. This is media fodder presented by DoH/HSE to undermine legitimate criticism of an underperforming public system.
Who won't reformed contracts? Doctors have been asking for new GP and consultant contracts for years. DoH have failed to discuss GP contract and then produced a bizarre Slaintecare contract which is going nowhere. I've never been to NAAS ED but what exactly are the nurses doing that is so wrong? And what does that have to do with the union?And yet they won't reform contracts, payroll or work practices that cost the State hundreds of millions. Have you need to Naas Hospital A&E? Go in and spend a few hours sitting there. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious. The chaotic and incompetent way the Nurses run the place has to be seem to be believed.
Well I was a junior doctor for almost a decade, which is a long time to work those hours. Where are you getting your information on SHOs? Ours operate every week.Junior doctors did those kind of hours, mainly Interns. SHO's also worked crazy hours (many still do). Neither Interns or SHO's are operating on anyone.
Again, where are you getting this from? Registrars do complex procedures all the time and towards the end of their training may well have their own lists. When I was a 3rd year SHO I was doing full lists as the primary surgeon with the consultant teaching/assisting.Registrars do simple procedures, if approved to do so by the Consultant they work under. Let's not make stuff up.
What is this based on? In my unit consultants are available 24/7, do teaching morning, lunchtime, evening, see patients 1-2 times per day, do clinics, operate, do research... It sounds like you are making claims based on the distant past because I have worked in hospitals all over Ireland and I have never seen what you're describing.They are certainly writing prescriptions and monitoring patients when way too tired to do so but that's because Consultants won't do their job and when those NCHD's become Consultants they don't do their job either.
My point is that nurses also come in for unfair criticism when in fact they do a very tough job in poor conditions. Brilliant nursing colleagues of mine who have moved abroad will never return, they are treated so much better. We should be trying to keep them here instead of buying into this anti-union, anti-public service hysteria.I wouldn't clean out septic tanks for a living but some people so. Horses for courses.
It's not all about funding, planning and infrastructure are huge elements. We have no national electronic patient record, no sign of the individual health identifier, HSE has multiple HR/salary offices which do not work together. We also concentrate huge resources in hospital which should be done in the community - that's the core of Slaintecare, which has been delayed and undermined.That's an oxymoron.
How come we have one of the best funded healthcare systems in the world but some of the worst metrics for outcomes in the OECD?
Every element of the system plays a part, including the general public who have voted in governments that allow the status quo to perpetuate. The creation of the HSE was a huge failure as it just stuck a lot of health boards together but let fiefdoms develop. The creation of the Vhi and the proliferation of private care is also DoH and government's doing.Is it all the fault of every single Minister for Health for the last 40 years?
I've never heard anyone in healthcare refer to healthcare staff as heroes.Sorry guys, but you gotta' take responsibility for the mess you perpetuate. Heroes? Don't make me laugh.