Greenman Open Fund investment

A

AntoCOD

Registered User
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2
Hi,

I've recently changed job and had to do something with my pension from my previous company. I wanted something not very risky and my financial advisor recommended putting it all into the Greenman open fund j series.
I've no knowledge of investments so am very much been guided by him on this.
However I'm nervous especially due to covid-19 as it's a fund interesting in retail in Germany. And also as it's all my eggs in one basket as it were.

Has anyone any advice?

Thanks,
Anto
 
The Greenman Open fund is a good fund but I wouldn't recommend that anyone puts their entire pension fund into any single asset class, e.g. property in this case. I'm assuming that your financial advisor is recommending that you invest in this fund via an Aviva policy. Aviva have other fund choices and you should be able to invest in the Greenman fund along with other funds offered by Aviva, within the one policy.
 
This is an appalling recommendation

i would strongly recommend seeking another adviser


Marc Westlake
Chartered Certified and European Financial Planner
www.globalwealth.ie
 
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AntoCOD said:
Hi,

I've recently changed job and had to do something with my pension from my previous company. I wanted something not very risky and my financial advisor recommended putting it all into the Greenman open fund j series.
I've no knowledge of investments so am very much been guided by him on this.
However I'm nervous especially due to covid-19 as it's a fund interesting in retail in Germany. And also as it's all my eggs in one basket as it were.

Has anyone any advice?

Thanks,
Anto
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Your “financial advisor”, and I use the term in the loosest possible sense, is a scoundrel.

That is an appalling recommendation that should be reported to the Central Bank.

Ask this “advisor” for a detailed breakdown of all commission payable to him/her in respect of this “investment”.

Incredible; scum of the earth stuff. People like that should be driven out of financial services.

The worrying thing is the number of people who don’t come to a site like AAM and get pointed in the right direction. Shocking.
 
Whatever about the fund (not something I recommend so I don't read up on where the properties are invested), you need to know the way this product is priced. I seriously think it should be looked at.

You set up your pension with Aviva. The broker can get paid a commission by Aviva for this.
But now Aviva have created this self directed option using Cantor Fitzgerald, where you can go off and invest in other funds and products. The likes of Greenman, Blackbee and other structured products are available through this self directed option so the advisor gets paid a second commission for selling these products too.

of course, Brokers can do this too through the regular self administered pension structures but the charges are a bit more transparent under these schemes.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
Investment Under consideration: Greenman Open Fund



ISSUER: Greenman Investments SCA

SEDOL: BKMDZ78

ISIN: LU2074594297

Legal Structure SICAV

Domicile Luxembourg



Diversification


When constructing a portfolio, investors are seeking to take advantage of the non-correlation between different asset classes to reduce portfolio volatility and risk profile. In a multi-asset class portfolio, the differing risk reward parameters of cash, fixed interest securities, property and equities have long been used to provide superior risk adjusted returns.

Because of this, our due diligence process is constantly on the lookout for new opportunities for investment which are uncorrelated with other asset classes.


What is Greenman Open Fund


An alternative Investment Fund (AIF) promoted by an Irish company, predominantly via Friends First Self-directed Pensions investing in German “Strip-mall style” retail parks predominantly in food retail.


Is it a unique investment option?

No, because other commercial property vehicles exist, it is necessary to compare this with the alternatives in order to assess which is the best investment option.


Limitations


Gearing – the fund borrows to invest which has the effect of increasing the investment risk and therefore potential gains and losses for investors

Charges – in global terms this is a relatively small fund and therefore has higher charges than comparable alternatives

Diversification – The fund only invests in Germany where our preference is to invest globally

Daily priced – no, the fund is quarterly priced and has lockins



Risk Warnings


Liquidity risk

Investments in the fund should be considered illiquid.

The fund intends to use a substantial portion of the funds to purchase direct property investments with gearing

Such an investment is essentially illiquid. Therefore the fund may not have access to liquid assets to make any payment to shareholders unless additional subscriptions can be attracted or a property sold.

Accordingly, delays may occur in redemption payments. In order to increase the funds liquidity, the Manager will seek to hold “adequate” cash to match redemptions which will result in “cash drag” reducing performance potential


Investment risk

It should be remembered that the price of the Shares and the income (if any) from them can go down as well as up and that, on the redemption of their Shares, investors may not receive the amount that they originally invested. The volatility in the value of investments may be reduced by investing as part of a diversified portfolio with adequate liquidity.

The return on the investment will be dependent in large part upon the ability and expertise of the investment Adviser to source and price the investments. The pricing of a property is dependent upon the quarterly valuations provided by the valuer and these are a matter of opinion until a property is sold.

Opinion

Given the availability of lower cost, larger, more liquid and more globally diversified commercial property investments we see no reason to favour this fund over the alternatives.

www.globalwealth.ie
 
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Dave Vanian said:
@Marc @Gordon Gekko @SBarrett

You've all given a thumbs down to the original advice.

Have any of you got any comments to make about the fund itself?

What do you think should @AntoCOD do instead?
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Somewhat analagous to suggesting that someone doesn’t shoot themselves in the face only to be asked “well what would you do differently?”

Well I wouldn’t shoot myself in the face, i.e. be hoodwinked by a crooked broker for starters.

I’d go and talk to someone reputable, e.g. Steven who’s namechecked above.
 
@Gordon Gekko I don't know the original poster or his broker, but I'm a bit surprised by your responses to this, to be honest. Steven has pointed out the possibility that a broker could be paid by both Greenman and Aviva for putting someone in this fund. A broker can also choose to be paid by only one, e.g. to reinvest commission from Aviva and take commission from Greenman.

Every single one of the pension companies that distribute through brokers - Irish Life, Zurich Life, Aviva, Standard Life, New Ireland - offer a choice of charging structures on every single pension product. If a broker wants to take obscene loads of commission, s/he can, to the detriment of the client. The reason that so many possible charging structures exist is that many brokers choose to offer a better deal to their client with a view to forging a long-term relationship, rather than gouging every single client for every cent commission they can earn. That's why the good charging structures exist at all. Because of demand for them.

Why do you assume that the OP's broker is a "scoundrel" and a "crooked broker" engaging in "scum of the earth stuff"?

If the OP had said that the broker was double-dipping on commissions, or had given enough information in the first post to enable us to conclude that he had been recommended a fund that was contrary to his needs or wants and the information provided in the fact-finding, then I'd agree with you. Bad brokers do no favours to anyone in the industry. But there's not enough information in the posts to conclude this.
 
Perhaps the OP can clarify if this pension from his previous company represents 100% of his total pension assets, what those assets are currently invested in and also if they could provide their age range? The OP's comment "it's all my eggs in one basket" would suggest that the proposed Greenman investment would represent 100% of the pension assets. If this is the case, I think that most readers of this thread would rightly conclude that the proposed recommendation is dubious and rightly questioned the motives of the adviser. Compensation incentives may have influenced the advice but more info is needed.
 
LDFerguson said:
@Gordon Gekko I don't know the original poster or his broker, but I'm a bit surprised by your responses to this, to be honest. Steven has pointed out the possibility that a broker could be paid by both Greenman and Aviva for putting someone in this fund. A broker can also choose to be paid by only one, e.g. to reinvest commission from Aviva and take commission from Greenman.

Every single one of the pension companies that distribute through brokers - Irish Life, Zurich Life, Aviva, Standard Life, New Ireland - offer a choice of charging structures on every single pension product. If a broker wants to take obscene loads of commission, s/he can, to the detriment of the client. The reason that so many possible charging structures exist is that many brokers choose to offer a better deal to their client with a view to forging a long-term relationship, rather than gouging every single client for every cent commission they can earn. That's why the good charging structures exist at all. Because of demand for them.

Why do you assume that the OP's broker is a "scoundrel" and a "crooked broker" engaging in "scum of the earth stuff"?

If the OP had said that the broker was double-dipping on commissions, or had given enough information in the first post to enable us to conclude that he had been recommended a fund that was contrary to his needs or wants and the information provided in the fact-finding, then I'd agree with you. Bad brokers do no favours to anyone in the industry. But there's not enough information in the posts to conclude this.
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Punter wants a low risk investment and gets ‘Greenman’, a leveraged German commercial property fund that happens to pay big juicy commissions.

All of it!

I stand by my comments.
 
Thanks all for your comments, I appreciate them.
I think I need to have a proper look into what I've done with this investment and not just go with what the advisor has invested for me.

I know I should have questioned alot more but to be honest I just trusted him as a qualified professional with expertise in this field.

Anto
 
LDFerguson said:
Irish Life, Zurich Life, Aviva, Standard Life and New Ireland also pay "big juicy commissions". What are your thoughts on these companies and any brokers that advise people to invest with them?
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Liam, with respect, I think that you’re missing the point.

Upfront or trail commissions are okay if they’re properly disclosed to the client and if the investment solution proposed is appropriate.

But on what planet is the following okay:

“Hello Mr Broker, I’d like something that’s ‘not very risky’ for my pension fund; just to let you know, I’ve no knowledge of investments.”

“No, problem, I have this leveraged German property fund that’s quite remunerative for me; you should put it all in that.”

All of it. Into the Greenman leveraged property fund. German retail property. All of it. Yes, all of it.
 
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AntoCOD said:
I just trusted him as a qualified professional with expertise in this field
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That was your big mistake. Of course there are good brokers out there. Steven and Liam, for example, based on their posting history.

However, and this is merely my own view, most are as dishonest as they are stupid. Chancers and charlatans out to rape and pillage and fill their boots insofar as they can. The world of the financial broker is a swamp in which clients must tread very carefully.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
That was your big mistake. Of course there are good brokers out there. Steven and Liam, for example, based on their posting history.

However, and this is merely my own view, most are as dishonest as they are stupid. Chancers and charlatans out to rape and pillage and fill their boots insofar as they can. The world of the financial broker is a swamp in which clients must tread very carefully.
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I thank you for your comments on my AAM posts. But I disagree with your post in general. I could counter with my own opinion that, having been in the life & pensions business for over 30 years, I have met scores of brokers and most of them are professionals trying to provide a good service and make an honest living. The smaller outfits in particular have a strong motivation to do a good job - referral business. Anyone that's been in the business for more than a few years knows that repeat and referral business is the strongest form of advertising you have. If you rip a single customer off, they might not know immediately but they'll know in a few years' time when their fund values are rubbish. You've just chopped down an entire family tree of potential referrers, along with their friends and colleagues. Increasing regulation has also raised the standard and got rid of some of the chancers. Are there still dodgy, incompetent, greedy and/or downright dishonest brokers out there? Hell yes. Would I agree with your statement "most are as dishonest as they are stupid"? No. But then this would be merely my opinion based on anecdotal evidence of my own experience, against your opinion, also presumably based on your own experience.
 
can’t get nav returns for each year from Greenman. Anytime I check their website they are maintaining everything is ok and quarterly distributions are being met. They have maintained that 2020 had returns of 5% but when digging deeper I discover it’s more like 2%. Has anyone any experience with this fund or this company.
 
Extraspin said:
can’t get nav returns for each year from Greenman. Anytime I check their website they are maintaining everything is ok and quarterly distributions are being met. They have maintained that 2020 had returns of 5% but when digging deeper I discover it’s more like 2%. Has anyone any experience with this fund or this company.
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I’m in this investment since April 2020 and to date I have seen a 1.6% fund value increase and have had returns paid back to me of just over €2,000. I’m told there will also be an additional bonus of 1% paid in Jun/Jul which means my total return is 1.6% fund growth plus €2,508 in dividends or as they call them distributions. I can see this as I have access to my account and its clearly laid out. This means my return is 6.61% for 15 months and in line with what I was told it would do. Another thread mentioned 8% returns, I was advised between 5 to 6%. I’m in the option that pays out dividends but there is another option that rolls the dividends up if I recall which means the fund growth would be higher.
 
Coffeeortea said:
I’m in this investment since April 2020 and to date I have seen a 1.6% fund value increase and have had returns paid back to me of just over €2,000. I’m told there will also be an additional bonus of 1% paid in Jun/Jul which means my total return is 1.6% fund growth plus €2,508 in dividends or as they call them distributions. I can see this as I have access to my account and its clearly laid out. This means my return is 6.61% for 15 months and in line with what I was told it would do. Another thread mentioned 8% returns, I was advised between 5 to 6%. I’m in the option that pays out dividends but there is another option that rolls the dividends up if I recall which means the fund growth would be higher.
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I'm very interested to read that you have (online?) access to your account. Did your broker arrange this for you? I ask because I have to ask my broker for statements and would much prefer to have my own access.

In the 3 years since I invested in Greenman, the value of my capital investment has fallen by 1.2%; however, I have received quarterly distributions (and bonuses) worth about 13% of its original value. Of course, as the distributions are taxed at 41% the net value to me is only 7.8% of the value of the investment. But overall I'm quite satisfied with the performance of my Greenman investment to date.
 
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We really like UCITs funds which are priced daily and publish their price publicly and can also provide audited accounts.

Then you know what you hold, what it costs and what it’s worth.

Given that, why would you buy this fund?

globalwealth.ie

In Search of the Perfect Investment Portfolio

Many investors find it difficult to achieve returns offered by the markets due to a misunderstanding of investment risk, costs and taxes.
globalwealth.ie globalwealth.ie

Marc Westlake
Chartered Certified and European Financial Planner
www.globalwealth.ie
 
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