Example of Rip Off Republic

ubiquitous said:
high volume of Irish residents going north for dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc
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"high volume indeed"....of the 3 or 4 million people in the republic, how much of their spending is "going north" for their "dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc" . You are in the accountancy trade, you should know. What constitutes a "high volume" in your book ? 2% ? 5 % ? 20 % 80 % ?


ubiquitous said:
but no such traffic northwards for accountancy fees
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Obviously some do, or some N.I firms would not bother the complications ( currency / different tax jurisdiction etc ) of touting for business in "rip off Republic". Many Northern accountants have no experience or expertise in the tax regulations etc of the Irish Republic, any more than you may have of France , for example, so it may be unrealistic to expect people to shop in different jurisdictions for their accountancy services. Besides, as another poster correctly wrote :"If you call NI or GB accountants to quote for Irish accounts, then surely they too will charge Irish prices? (rubbing their hands in glee)
A better experiment might be to get them to quote for NI or GB accounts."
 
ubiquitous said:
The difference is that there is a high volume of Irish residents going north for dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc but no such traffic northwards for accountancy fees - despite the fact that many NI firms (such as the 5 listed above, which I found on a simple google search) have specific expertise and competence in preparing Irish accounts and tax returns, and market themselves on that basis.
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Well I know one Northern Ireland firm who win major public sector contracts down here everytime they come up for tender.

Having said that it doesn't prove that accountants down here are too expensive. The cost of doing business in Ireland in general is higher than the UK so why are people just picking on accountants. Wouldn't be my favourite people in the world (just above clampers :)) but some of the criticism is a bit OTT.
 
rabbit said:
"high volume indeed"....of the 3 or 4 million people in the republic, how much of their spending is "going north" for their "dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc" . You are in the accountancy trade, you should know. What constitutes a "high volume" in your book ? 2% ? 5 % ? 20 % 80 % ?
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Don't take my word for it. Just ask Dan McLaughlin...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0711/economy.html "'IKEA effect' hurting Republic's economy"

Everything that could go wrong for the Irish economy has gone wrong, according to Bank of Ireland chief economist Dan McLaughlin, whose quarterly Economic Outlook is out today.
...

Dr McLaughlin says the credit crunch, high oil prices, the fall in the Irish stock market, slow economic activity, higher interest rates and weakness in the dollar and sterling have all taken their toll.

He says this has led to a sharp fall in business and consumer confidence. On top of these problems he says Irish retailers now have to cope with the fact that the Irish shopper spent 30% more abroad in the first three months of this year, while growth in the tourist spend here was only 2%.

This, he says, is partly down to the IKEA effect, or the leakage of spending to Northern Ireland for items such as clothing, furniture and food.
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rabbit said:
Many Northern accountants have no experience or expertise in the tax regulations etc of the Irish Republic, any more than you may have of France
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Again I would like to know what basis you have for this statement. ICAI members in NI for example are subject to the same regulation and receive the same training as their counterparts in the South.

rabbit said:
Besides, as another poster correctly wrote :"If you call NI or GB accountants to quote for Irish accounts, then surely they too will charge Irish prices? (rubbing their hands in glee)
A better experiment might be to get them to quote for NI or GB accounts."
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Well then, if you concede that NI or UK firms are prepared to charge excessive prices to their ROI-based clients, that undermines your argument that Irish firms are to blame for what you perceive to be the high charges here?
 
Sunny said:
...but some of the criticism is a bit OTT.
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You forget that the person making these criticisms has a bit of a bee in his bonnet with the accountancy profession judging from their regular AAM posts, such as here: http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=91590 and here, http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=42558 , the latter dating as far back as 01-12-2006, and containing this statement: Sounds familiar? ;)

rabbit said:
I actually was chatting to a few friends from England and America recently, and the fees they pay to dentists, accountants etc are much less than we pay in " rip off Ireland", as Eddie Hobbs calls it. Of course there are those who charge high fees in New York and London, but the average overheads in a small town in Ireland - never mind the level of expertise or experience probably - are not like in the centre of Manhatten or London.
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ubiquitous said:
Well then, if you concede that NI or UK firms are prepared to charge excessive prices to their ROI-based clients, that undermines your argument that Irish firms are to blame for what you perceive to be the high charges here?
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Not at all. In reality, most UK firms do not quote for accountancy services to clients in the Republic of Ireland. Its like most car buyers in Ireland do not get quotes from UK garages - its just not worth the hassle. Neverless, some Irish people do buy cars in the UK and import them, and cars are definitely cheaper in the UK than in "rip off Ireland". As another poster correctly wrote :"If you call NI or GB accountants to quote for Irish accounts, then surely they too will charge Irish prices? (rubbing their hands in glee)."
You obviously missed my point that many Northern accountants and UK accountants have no experience or expertise in the tax regulations etc of the Irish Republic, any more than you may have of France , for example, so it may be unrealistic to expect people to shop in different jurisdictions for their accountancy services, when it is more convenient to get their books done by somebody living in / familiar with their own jurisdiction / tax regulations / deadlines etc.
As regards what I "perceive to be the high charges here "...do you, as someone in the accountancy business here, really think that Irish accountancy fees are the same as UK accountancy fees ( in general ) - despite the fact costs are higher in Ireland ? lol

Incidentally, you still have not answered the question re you statement about "the high volume of Irish residents going north for dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc". Of the 3 or 4 million people in the republic, how much of their spending is "going north" for their "dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc" . You are in the accountancy trade, you should know. What constitutes a "high volume" in your book ? 2% ? 5 % ? 20 % 80 % ?
 
Sunny said:
Well I know one Northern Ireland firm who win major public sector contracts down here everytime they come up for tender.

Having said that it doesn't prove that accountants down here are too expensive. The cost of doing business in Ireland in general is higher than the UK so why are people just picking on accountants.
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Nobody is "just picking on accountants". I mentioned other areas which are more expensive in Ireland eg dentistry, cars, magazines and some imported goods etc. There are numerous accountants on this forum who would have you believe accountancy fees ( to businesses ) are the same in this expensive country as in other lower cost jurisdictions.
 
rabbit said:
There are numerous accountants on this forum who would have you believe accountancy fees ( to businesses ) are the same in this expensive country as in other lower cost jurisdictions.
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Numerous? Name two of them so. (btw, If I'm one of them, remind me when I said that.)
 
"There are numerous accountants on this forum who would have you believe accountancy fees ( to businesses ) are the same in this expensive country as in other lower cost jurisdictions."

ubiquitous said:
, remind me when I said that.
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In your post of 3183 for example you wrote " But it simply is not credible that accountancy fees in NI are higher than in GB. And I have pointed out clearly the basis for my view that accountancy fees in ROI do not differ from accountancy fees in NI "
 
rabbit said:
In your post of 3183 for example you wrote " But it simply is not credible that accountancy fees in NI are higher than in GB. And I have pointed out clearly the basis for my view that accountancy fees in ROI do not differ from accountancy fees in NI "
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Indeed, which you dismissed by saying that your argument was nothing to do with NI but with the UK as a whole. In fact you said "I do not know much about accountancy firms in N. Ireland or what they charge." :confused: At this stage, I'm starting to yawn myself :)
 
ubiquitous said:
Indeed
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Well you cannot have it both ways. Make up your mind. Either you believe "accountancy fees ( to businesses ) are the same in this expensive country as in other lower cost jurisdictions." or not. Which is it now ? Do you think accountancy fees ( to businesses ) are the same in Rep. of Ireland ( in general ) as in UK ( in general ) , or higher, or lower ? Can you not , as a member of the accountancy business, answer a simple question ?


Incidentally, you still have not answered the question re you statement about "the high volume of Irish residents going north for dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc". Of the 3 or 4 million people in the republic, how much of their spending is "going north" for their "dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc" . You are in the accountancy trade, you should know, seeing as you highlight this point. What constitutes a "high volume" in your book ? 2% ? 5 % ? 20 % 80 % ? Can you not , as a member of the accountancy business, be more specific ?
 
ubiquitous said:
Indeed, which you dismissed by saying that your argument was nothing to do with NI but with the UK as a whole. In fact you said "I do not know much about accountancy firms in N. Ireland or what they charge." :confused: At this stage, I'm starting to yawn myself :)
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Not wanting to stir it up. But I was a sole trader in the UK (London) and my accountant charged £190 every year. I returned to Ireland and the fee from my Irish accountant was over €500.
I do and have always done my own VAT returns.
 
DavyJones said:
Not wanting to stir it up. But I was a sole trader in the UK (London) and my accountant charged £190 every year. I returned to Ireland and the fee from my Irish accountant was over €500.
I do and have always done my own VAT returns.
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If you think that's bad; we in the West spend as much on food in one day as the poor of the developing world spend in a month. If that's not a rip-off then I don't know that is!
 
DavyJones said:
Not wanting to stir it up. But I was a sole trader in the UK (London) and my accountant charged £190 every year. I returned to Ireland and the fee from my Irish accountant was over €500.
I do and have always done my own VAT returns.
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That is the type of story I have heard from numerous people on both sides of the Irish sea....except not many Irish accountants charge only 500 per year for sole trader accounts. Will all accountants willing to do yearly accounts for a sole trader ( ex vat returns ) for only 500 euro please step forward , and put your money where your mouth is ? I know of one sole trader, who done his own vat returns, who was charged € 4500 by his accountant in Ireland to do yearly accounts / submit vat return , even though cash book, vat purchases book, sales book, cheques journal etc was neatly summarised / added up.
 
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