Example of Rip Off Republic

rabbit said:
two similar businesses , one in the UK and one in Ireland, both with similar turnovers and working in the same types of business
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Accountancy fees vary dramatically between firms in Ireland. There are some firms in my own locality charging double the rates that others charge. Variations of €4,500 v €2,000-odd would not be uncommon.

If you post details of the business sector, level of turnover, and whether audit exemption applies, I will tell you if the UK company are getting good value for their £2,000/€2,500.
 
The Irish business owner did indeed endevour / shop around to get the cheapest accountancy fees. However, he is not willing ( yet ! ) to get his books done abroad, as he feels foreign firms may not be accessable / be knowledgeable about the Irish tax system etc. The Irish business owner knows from chatting to others with similar businesses in Ireland that that is what accountants charge in Ireland. Over the years , at trade shows and various other meetings, he has met a number of people with similar size shops in the UK, all of whom pay nearly half for their accountancy services. The UK people cannot get their heads around how expensive outgoings like accountants are in Ireland. Shure who can blame them. Rip off Republic, just like dentists fees, car prices etc.
 
Look at two similar businesses , one in the UK and one in Ireland, both with similar tiurnovers and working in the same types of business, and you will find the Irish business having to pay much more money just to get his books done by the accountant, just to keep the revenue happy etc. An example of 4500 euro versus £ 2000 stg ( about € 2500 ) springs to mind. Nearly double.
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Are these just hypotecical "similar businesses" are do they actually exist.
Do they follow the exact same book keeping format?
Do they have the exact same number of staff?
Do they both make the exact same number of calls to their accountant during the year/

I'm not an accountant but I have worked in an a/c office and you'd be amazed how bad books can triple the work of the account, or how some will phone the accountant for everything....turnover is not the only indication of cost & even within Ireland (or even England) costs will vary hughly.

It's almost impossible to compare products/or services unless they are EXACTLY like for like & and if they aren't, you need to allow a certain about of "weighting" on some componants.

Eg - I know some people who travel up North to shop every few weeks...they talk about saving €x on the shop, but seem to ignore the cost of the petrol, wear and tear on the car, tolls, extra time involved & opportunity cost (ie-being abe to do something else that may save/earn money in the excee time involved). So it would have to be a significant saving to warranty me making the trip, once all the costs are taken into account.
 
ubiquitous said:
Someone posted a query on AAM a few months ago where they imported a wedding dress from NY, and got caught for the VAT and duty in Ireland. They said that once they paid he VAT & duty, there was little or no saving.
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I don't think VAT & Duty would come to €1,000. Alot of brides on www.weddingsonline.ie state that they buy their dresses from the USA.
 
Someone posted a query on AAM a few months ago where they imported a wedding dress from NY, and got caught for the VAT and duty in Ireland. They said that once they paid he VAT & duty, there was little or no saving.
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So it's the government ripping us off instead of the wedding dress shop. This makes it more of a rip off because you can't shop around.
(We got a wedding dress in TX Maxx for <€100, and it was lovely)
 
sam h said:
Do they follow the exact same book keeping format?
Do they have the exact same number of staff?
Do they both make the exact same number of calls to their accountant during the year
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on average , Yes. And yet the accountancy fees are nearly half in the UK. If anything, the service provided in the UK is better. Just like dentists here versus up North, or buying cars here versus in the UK, paying more in "Rip off Ireland " does not automatically mean you are getting more for your money in Rip off Ireland.
 
rabbit said:
The Irish business owner did indeed endevour / shop around to get the cheapest accountancy fees. However, he is not willing ( yet ! ) to get his books done abroad, as he feels foreign firms may not be accessable / be knowledgeable about the Irish tax system etc. The Irish business owner knows from chatting to others with similar businesses in Ireland that that is what accountants charge in Ireland. Over the years , at trade shows and various other meetings, he has met a number of people with similar size shops in the UK, all of whom pay nearly half for their accountancy services. The UK people cannot get their heads around how expensive outgoings like accountants are in Ireland. Shure who can blame them. Rip off Republic, just like dentists fees, car prices etc.
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Oddly enough the Institute of Chartered Accountants represents accountants on both sides of the border, and has a dedicated Practice Advisory department, which issues publications & runs courses on practice management issues for members. I have attended many of these courses and read pretty much all their practice management publications since I first became an ICAI trainee two decades ago. I have never heard until today that accountancy fees charged by NI firms are half of what are charged by ROI firms.

If that is true (which I very much doubt) how come there isn't a flood of clients heading north to get their accounts and tax done more cheaply? Even from places like Cavan, Donegal and Louth?

Its not as if the firms in the North aren't expert on ROI tax. There are firms like FPM, [broken link removed], with offices in Newry & Dundalk, who provide services on both sides of the border, are highly reputable and are expert in the laws affecting both jurisdictions.
 
on average , Yes.
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Amazing how you managed to sit down with both parties, examine their books and manage to come to such a decision!! Do you hold a financial qualification?

I'm not saying we always get the best value for money in Ireland but you need to be able to access like for like.

In fact, the accountant I worked for had several UK based clients, thats a fact....I can't say whether it was because he was cheaper, provided a better service or whatever. But he has had UK clients for years
 
ClubMan said:
This thread?
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No, it was one where the lady said that her mother had paid for the dress(es?), and she had got the supplier to mark the package as a "gift". Needless to say, the Customs people spotted it, and charged her duty & VAT.
 
ubiquitous said:
I have never heard until today that accountancy fees charged by NI firms are half of what are charged by ROI firms.
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Nobody - except you - mentioned any N.I. firms. The UK firms mentioned were from "the mainland". It is there that the examples of accountancy fees being quite a bit cheaper than in Ireland, were found. Shure why would they not be, when accountants there do not have to pay a fortune on cars, on dentists etc. Maybe half the accountants there also do not have section 23 investments, holiday homes etc dotted all around the place.lol
 
The link seems to be the last one here



"Customs and VAT due on a GIFT from the USA??? - Askaboutmoney.com"

Unfortunately it generates the following message: "Invalid Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"
 
rabbit said:
Nobody - except you - mentioned any N.I. firms. The UK firms mentioned were from "the mainland". It is there that the examples of accountancy fees being quite a bit cheaper than in Ireland, were found. Shure why would they not be, when accountants there do not have to pay a fortune on cars, on dentists etc.
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Your first mention of "the mainland" was in your last post. Onve again we are supposed to be psychic. You seem to be saying now that firms in NI charge double of what firms in GB charge. As you might say yourself, lol

Maybe half the accountants there also do not have section 23 investments, holiday homes etc dotted all around the place.lol
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What about the other half that don't (including poor little me :) )
 
ubiquitous said:
Your first mention of "the mainland" was in your last post. Onve again we are supposed to be psychic. You seem to be saying now that firms in NI charge double of what firms in GB charge.
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I do not know much about accountancy firms in N. Ireland or what they charge. No doubt they are generally much more familiar with the UK tax regime than the Rep. of Ireland one. I cannot speak for N. I. accountancy firms and I doubt you can either.

To avoid confusing you, I should have said "mainland UK" or " Britain" instead of UK. Below I show the changed post.
"Over the years , at trade shows and various other meetings, he ( the business owner in Rep. of Ireland ) has met a number of people with similar size shops in mainland UK, all of whom pay nearly half for their accountancy services. The Brits cannot get their heads around how expensive outgoings like accountants are in Ireland. Shure who can blame them. Rip off Republic, just like dentists fees, car prices etc. "
 
rabbit said:
I do not know much about accountancy firms in N. Ireland or what they charge.
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To be honest, I don't think you know a whole lot about accountancy firms in "mainland" UK (and indeed ROI) and what they charge either...apart from "Duirt bean liom go nduirt bean lei" yarns that tend to change a bit every time you are challenged on the detail. :)
 
Pretty broad sweeping comments, there are plenty of areas that Accountants operate in with different fee levels, I presume above the poster is referring to Audit Fees, however there are lots of other areas of accountancy that are similarly priced or cheaper to UK firms, eg Fund Administration & consultancy. Also depending on how valuable a client you are is a big factor in how large a fee a firm will charge, a small client using very few additional services to Auditing will face high fees, whereas a large client which uses a firm for its Audit plus additional services such as Corporate Finance & Taxation advice can be sure they’ll receive very competitive quotes. And the largest blue Chip Clients can pretty much dictate their fees.

Bottom line in the accountancy game is if u want to use the big 4 you’ll pay accordingly, use smaller firms and the fee will (generally) be smaller!
 
Here is a savage example of prices in the RoI versus prices in NI. I couldn't believe it.


I am buying glass mosaic tiles. They are made by a UK company, Original Style, see this link:

[broken link removed]

The price in Tuam for a sheet = 30 euro.

The price in Fermanagh for the same sheet = under 8 euro.

The exact same product. Unreal.
 
bamboozle said:
Bottom line in the accountancy game is if u want to use the big 4 you’ll pay accordingly, use smaller firms and the fee will (generally) be smaller!
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That is clouding the issue as its true abroad as well. ( An accountancy firm in the financial district of London is going to charge more than a local small practise in a market town in rural Britain.) However, to the average small businessman / self employed person in this country who has to get his books done ( to satisfy revenue etc ) its certainly not a "game" , paying high fees. It may be a "game" to the accountancy firms but just like we pay more for dental fees, cars etc in this country it is as clear as night is day other services such as accountancy are out of line with some overseas prices too.
 
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