Example of Rip Off Republic

ubiquitous said:
To be honest, I don't think you know a whole lot about accountancy firms in "mainland" UK (and indeed ROI)
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I am not an expert on accountancy nor do I claim to be, even though I have seen enough accountancy invoices to support a village in Africa ! What I do know , from chatting to friends, family and business contacts here and in Britain is how accountancy fees - comparing like with like - seem to be so much less in Britain. It is not surprising some members of the accountancy trade here pop up to argue their case, just as dentists here sometimes pop up to defend their charges, barristers defend their charges, even the shops selling UK magazines defend their prices.
 
"It is not surprising some members of the accountancy trade here pop up to argue their case,....."

Hardly surprising - the alternative is to observe ranters bang on unchecked!

mf
 
mf1 said:
"It is not surprising some members of the accountancy trade here pop up to argue their case,....."

Hardly surprising - the alternative is to observe ranters bang on unchecked!

mf
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Isn't that what LOS is all about ?
 
rabbit said:
What I do know , from chatting to friends, family and business contacts here and in Britain is how accountancy fees - comparing like with like - seem to be so much less in Britain.
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The "Duirt bean liom go nduirt bean lei" yarn changes again :D

You still haven't provided any concrete example, or indeed an explanation for your implicit claim that accountancy fees in GB are higher than in NI.
 
ubiquitous said:
You still haven't provided any concrete example, or indeed an explanation for your implicit claim that accountancy fees in GB are higher than in NI.
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Never mind N. Ireland. What was referred to was the difference between fees in Rip off Ireland" compared with Britain. I already wrote "I do not know much about accountancy firms in N. Ireland or what they charge. No doubt they are generally much more familiar with the UK tax regime than the Rep. of Ireland one. I cannot speak for N. I. accountancy firms and I doubt you can either." If you want to talk about N. Ireland accountancy fees , or the Shetland islands, or isle of Man, open a seperate thread on that. I do know a good few business people in N. Ireland, and they are well aware of the high cost of living / professional fees in "Rip off Ireland " but I am not aware of their accountancy expenses or have never compared their accountancy expenses with the fees chareged to similar businesses here etc, so cannot comment on them. You would have a hard enough job ubiquitous trying to defend the high fees charged by the people in your profession in "rip off Ireland" - I do not think you should both about any discrepancies between N.I. and mainland UK - that is a seperate discussion.
 
But it simply is not credible that accountancy fees in NI are higher than in GB.

And I have pointed out clearly the basis for my view that accountancy fees in ROI do not differ from accountancy fees in NI - which you have not challenged, except by successive variations on your "Duirt bean liom go nduirt bean lei" yarn. :)
 
In my experience (outside London) the UK is considerable cheaper than Ireland. That doesn’t mean that accountants in Britain are cheaper because Irish accountants are ripping people off or engaging in some from of cartel (which would be near impossible for such an open sector), the UK is just a lower cost economy.
 
Purple said:
In my experience (outside London) the UK is considerable cheaper than Ireland. That doesn’t mean that accountants in Britain are cheaper because Irish accountants are ripping people off or engaging in some from of cartel (which would be near impossible for such an open sector), the UK is just a lower cost economy.
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But that doesn't seem to be evidenced in any comparison of fees in NI & ROI. And although many NI firms can expertly prepare ROI returns and some explicitly market themselves on a cross-border basis (including the firm I named above), there is no significant traffic of clients going north for accountancy or tax services, unlike for groceries, electrical goods, building materials, dentistry etc.
 
ubiquitous said:
But that doesn't seem to be evidenced in any comparison of fees NI v ROI. And although many NI firms can expertly prepare ROI returns and some explicitly market themselves on a cross-border basis (including the firm I named above), there is no significant traffic of clients going north for accountancy or tax services, unlike for groceries, electrical goods, building materials etc.
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My comments are about costs in the UK in general. I cannot comment one way or the other on accountancy fees.
 
ubiquitous said:
But it simply is not credible that accountancy fees in NI are higher than in GB.
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We are not discussing fees in N. Ireland. What is beyond dispute ( by even some accountants themselves ) is the fact that accountancy fees are lower in most of the UK rather than "rip off Ireland".

As you insist on dragging N. Ireland in to the discussion, I phoned 4 different accountancy practices , just as an experiment, in N. Ireland , at random, since lunchtime. I enquired about them doing the books of a business from Republic of Ireland. Three said they would not be experienced to take on work from another jurisdiction / were not familiar with tax regime / deadlines etc south of the borderetc etc. The fourth said they would consider it and come back to be. This is hardly surprising. The shops in N. Ireland may have lower overheads - inc accountancy fees I would imagine but I do not have statistics to prove it - than the shops in "rip off Ireland", but that does not make it easy or practical for shops here, for example, to avail of their accountancy services from another jusisdiction. Maybe if a business in France or UK asked an accountant in Rep. of Ireland to quote for work, the Irish accountant would quote a higher figure than they would for a local.
 
rabbit said:
I phoned 4 different accountancy practices , just as an experiment, in N. Ireland , at random, since lunchtime. I enquired about them doing the books of a business from Republic of Ireland. Three said they would not be experienced to take on work from another jurisdiction / were not familiar with tax regime / deadlines etc south of the borderetc etc. The fourth said they would consider it and come back to be. This is hardly surprising.
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Not very convincing "research" if you don't mind me saying so, although I admire your patience. A week ago you told us you rang around 3 or 4 accountants south of the border looking (in vain) for price quotes before you admitted they "had the same receptionist".

Anyway, if you want to try again, here are a number of firms in NI who handle ROI cases.

Boyle & Co., Forkhill http://www.thebestof.co.uk/newry and mourne/40234/1/1/the_best_of.aspx "Boyle & Co Accountants are both ideally positioned and expertly trained to deal with matters pertaining to taxation both North and South of the border particularly in the Construction Industry."

FPM - linked above

Fitzpatrick and Kearney [broken link removed] "Fitzpatrick and Kearney Limited, Chartered Accountants have now been providing business solutions for over 50 years. Our offices in Newry and Kilkeel serve a large client base throughout Counties Down, Armagh, Louth and beyond."

Daly Park & Co. [broken link removed]

"Non Corporate Services
UK
* Preparation of Non Statutory Accounts
* Preparation of Online HMRC Tax Returns
* Specialists in HMRC Tax, VAT and PAYE Enquiries
* Income Tax, Capital Gains Tax and Inheritance Tax Advice
...

ROI
* Preparation of ROI Income Tax Returns
* Specialists in ROI Contractors Tax
* Specialists in ROI Tax, VAT and PAYE enquiries
* Advising on all aspects of Cross Border Taxation and Business issues
* ROI Payroll Services"

SP McKeown & Co Chartered Certified Accountants http://www.myvillage.com/belfast/businesszone-list_accountants3.htm
"Accounts, Audits and Book-keeping Specialist in UK and ROI Tax Business Plans & Consultancy C2 Applications Outsourcing Service Tax, VAT & PAYE Tax Investigations Financial Systems"

That'll keep you busy for a while :)
 
ubiquitous said:
here are a number of firms in NI who handle ROI cases.
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I am sure there are a number of accountancy practices in N. Ireland who do tap in to the lucrative accountancy business south of the border. Many accountants in N. Ireland or elsewhere in the UK however do not have the expertise or experience to confidently deal with the requirements of the tax regime of another jurisdiction, be it the Irish Republic or France for that matter. The point is the fact that accountancy fees are lower in most of the UK rather than Republic of Ireland. Incidentally, the four firms had different receptionists, as you would expect.

As someone involved in the accountancy business ubiquitous, you should simply acknowledge that accountancy fees, like dental fees, cars, etc are more expensive in "rip off Ireland" ( in general ) than in the UK ( in general ). You would have more credibility, than simply digging a bigger hole for yourself and trying to drag N. Ireland in to the debate. The discussion is not about fees in N. Ireland specifically ( or even if fees charged by N. I accountants to southern customers are the same as fees N. I accountants charge to custiomers in their own jurisdiction / tax regime / currency ) .

As another poster correctly wrote
"In my experience (outside London) the UK is considerable cheaper than Ireland. That doesn’t mean that accountants in Britain are cheaper because Irish accountants are ripping people off or engaging in some from of cartel (which would be near impossible for such an open sector), the UK is just a lower cost economy."
 
rabbit said:
As someone involved in the accountancy business ubiquitous, you should simply acknowledge that accountancy fees, like dental fees, cars, etc are more expensive in "rip off Ireland" ( in general ) than in the UK ( in general ). You would have more credibility, than simply digging a bigger hole for yourself and trying to drag N. Ireland in to the debate.
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But you still haven't produced a single shred of evidence to support your proposition.

rabbit said:
As another poster correctly wrote
"In my experience (outside London) the UK is considerable cheaper than Ireland. That doesn’t mean that accountants in Britain are cheaper because Irish accountants are ripping people off or engaging in some from of cartel (which would be near impossible for such an open sector), the UK is just a lower cost economy."
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But Purple has clarified these comments by saying:

Purple said:
My comments are about costs in the UK in general. I cannot comment one way or the other on accountancy fees.
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:)
 
If you call NI or GB accountants to quote for Irish accounts, then surely they too will charge Irish prices? (rubbing their hands in glee)
A better experiment might be to get them to quote for NI or GB accounts.
 
leghorn said:
If you call NI or GB accountants to quote for Irish accounts, then surely they too will charge Irish prices? (rubbing their hands in glee)
A better experiment might be to get them to quote for NI or GB accounts.
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Different tax system so different costs.
 
leghorn said:
If you call NI or GB accountants to quote for Irish accounts, then surely they too will charge Irish prices? (rubbing their hands in glee)
A better experiment might be to get them to quote for NI or GB accounts.
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My point exactly. It shows how ubiquitous's attempt to go off on a tangent and start discussing N. I. fees is just a foolish attempt to derail the debate from discussing why accountants charge considerably more in Rep. of Ireland ( in general ) than in UK ( in general ).
 
Purple said:
Different tax system so different costs.
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So this is why accountants fees are sometimes double in "rip off Ireland" ? I suppose dentists and other professions use this argument too, and it explains for some of the discrepancy ( just as higher vat rate / distribution costs etc would account for some of the higher cost of some imported goods here ). As the owner of a UK firm who distributes goods in both UK and Ireland said to me recently, when we were discussing accountancy fees, the problem is that the increased accountancy fees businesses are charged in Ireland is just another increased overhead which adds to the cost of goods here ( and / or lack of profitability for the business concerned ).
 
rabbit said:
So this is why accountants fees are sometimes double in "rip off Ireland" ?
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Only sometimes?

Btw, you still haven't produced a single shred of evidence to support this proposition. If you repeat any mantra long enough you will convince yourself that it is true. That won't convince the rest of us.

rabbit said:
I suppose dentists and other professions use this argument too, and it explains for some of the discrepancy ( just as higher vat rate / distribution costs etc would account for some of the higher cost of some imported goods here ). As the owner of a UK firm who distributes goods in both UK and Ireland said to me recently, when we were discussing accountancy fees, the problem is that the increased accountancy fees businesses are charged in Ireland is just another increased overhead which adds to the cost of goods here ( and / or lack of profitability for the business concerned ).
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The difference is that there is a high volume of Irish residents going north for dentistry, groceries, cars, business equipment, building materials etc but no such traffic northwards for accountancy fees - despite the fact that many NI firms (such as the 5 listed above, which I found on a simple google search) have specific expertise and competence in preparing Irish accounts and tax returns, and market themselves on that basis.
 
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