Eligibility for 65 yr. payment.

Clonback

Registered User
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388
The COAP is not means tested so you should qualify based on S contributions from 1988.It may be slightly reduced and that depends on your contributions prior to 1988.
As for the 65th year payment it would be nice to hear from people who have already qualified.
 

rum and black

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51

The COAP is not means tested so you should qualify based on S contributions from 1988.It may be slightly reduced and that depends on your contributions prior to 1988.
Thats good to know. No record of contributions received prior to 1988. I worked in a small family business from circa 1973 when I was 16/17 until 1984 when my dad passed away. I then became self employed. The only paperwork I can find was for some levy so I have no idea what was paid for those years and hope it wont be too much of a problem

In relation to the over 65 payment it would be good to hear from anyone with class S and rental income if you received it.

I also note that in the case of class S it appears no credits are given for this year which is also disappointing for those who have not got 40 years contributions.
 

bstop

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361
The guidelines state that subsidiary employment income must be a maximum of 7500 euro to qualify. You might be considered as having subsidiary employment of 35000 euro which would disqualify you from receiving the payment.
Did you originally inform them of your rental income?
If you did l would have thought that they would have immediately rejected your claim.
Please tell us what the final outcome is.
 
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Clonback

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388
The guidelines state that subsidiary employment income must be a maximum of 7500 euro to qualify. You might be considered as having subsidiary employment of 35000 euro which would disqualify you from receiving the payment.
Did you originally inform them of your rental income?
If you did l would have thought that they would have immediately rejected your claim.
There would be no point reapplying in 2022 as the governing year would remain the same. It is the year of your 63rd birthday.
Please tell us what the final outcome is.
Where did you get the guidelines from please?
 

bstop

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361
See post #7 by Sue Ellen further back on this thread.
She has a link to the guidelines.
 

bstop

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361
I have applied and received a reply seeking further information. I am self employed, 65 since December and have had very little income due to inability to work ( as unwell and refused illness benefit in 2018) and due to lockdowns etc during covid..
They are seeking information on my business as in did I sell it, how much I received and when did I receive it.
They have indicated that my income from 2019 and 2020 was 100% from unearned income. I have rental income and yes this is true for 2019 as I was unable to work but not for 2020 or 2021. My income for 2020 is offset against expenses ( a van I had purchased prior to becoming ill in 2018).

I contacted Pension office in Sligo today as they had recently sent me a detailed record of contributions which are "S" every year since 1988. They assure me these are eligible for COAP next year so fingers crossed.

I would willingly pay for advice from someone who understands the system if anyone could make a recommendation.
I am thinking now I will not be eligible as my rental income is approx 35000.

So if anyone has clear advice on whether rental income impacts this payment if on Class S contribution I would be glad to know. Also as all of my income in 2019 is from unearned income should I just reapply from January 2022 where my 2020 income may be considered.

Thanks in advance

The following are the details of prsi K class.

PRSI Class K
Certain public office holders pay PRSI at a rate of 4% on all income,
where their income is over €5,200 a year. They should be returned at
Class K. Public office holders with weekly income of €100 or less should
be returned at Class M.
Class K also applies to the additional earned self-employed income from
a trade or profession of a modified rate contributor, for example, civil
and public servants recruited prior to 6 April 1995, and on any unearned
income they may have. This income is liable to a 4% PRSI charge.
Class K may also apply to the unearned income of employed contributors
and occupational pensioners, whether the pension arises from the
person’s own employment or the employment of their spouse or civil
partner, under pensionable age, currently 66 years, where this is the
only additional income. This means that unearned income such as rental
income, investment income, dividends and interest on deposits and
savings may be liable to a 4% PRSI charge.


For any years where your only earnings were rental income you were subject to S class on the rental income.

For any years that you had self employed income and your only other source of income was rental income then for that year your rental income was subject to class K.

If you can manage some self employed work in your 65 year then you might be able to avoid being considered as employed for your rental income as it would be classed as K rather than S class for prsi.

If you can no longer be self employed, you could get employment for 1 week at A class prsi and this would also result in your rental income being subject to K class prsi.
 
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rum and black

Registered User
Messages
51
The guidelines state that subsidiary employment income must be a maximum of 7500 euro to qualify. You might be considered as having subsidiary employment of 35000 euro which would disqualify you from receiving the payment.
Did you originally inform them of your rental income?
If you did l would have thought that they would have immediately rejected your claim.
Please tell us what the final outcome is.
Hi Bstop,
No I didn't tell them I had rental income because from memory the form I filled out online did not ask about other income just the date you ceased employment. My rental income is fully declared but I don't consider it part of my everyday employment. I did not think this was a means tested payment or otherwise I would not have applied as I would have known I was not eligible. I did not see anything in the guidelines about subsidiary employment of 7500 euro and call me foolish but I probably would have assumed that meant employment not rental income. Clearly I have a lot to learn!!!
 

rum and black

Registered User
Messages
51
The following are the details of prsi K class.






For any years that you had self employed income and your only other source of income was rental income then for that year your rental income was subject to class K.

If you can manage some self employed work in your 65 year then you might be able to avoid being considered as employed for your rental income as it would be classed as K rather than S class for prsi.

If you can no longer be self employed, you could get employment for 1 week at A class prsi and this would also result in your rental income being subject to K class prsi.
So am I understanding you correctly when I say.

If I only have rental income its class S
If I have rental income and self employment income my self employment is class S and my rental income is class K. I havent noticed any other class on my statement at any time.

Apologies as I am not understanding why it is important to have it classed as K rather than S.

Unlightly to have any self employment this year and wouldn't even know where to begin looking for class A as I am self employed all my life.

Thanks for your input. I am learning a lot but probably too late for me.
 

ClubMan

Registered User
Messages
45,309
Not sure why some people are posting stuff that doesn't look relevant. You seem to have class S contributions from 1988 up to now? That should qualify you for the State Pension (Contributory) in part or full. See here for the PRSI requirements:
 

bstop

Registered User
Messages
361
Not sure why some people are posting stuff that doesn't look relevant.
It has been reasonably established that a person with earnings of over 7500 euro classed as S Prsi is considered as being in employment.
What I am trying to establish is, would a person with investment income over 7500 euro classed as K Prsi be also considered as being in employment. If this person is also considered as in employment then the Payment for 65's is effectively means tested as bank interest or dividends over 7500 euro would disqualify them from the payment.

A person with investment income only is subject to S class Prsi.
A person with even just one A class Prsi contribution in any tax year who also has investment income is subject to K class on the investment income.

So would a person with over 7500 euro in investment income and one A class contribution qualify for the over 65's payment ?
 

ClubMan

Registered User
Messages
45,309
I contacted Pension office in Sligo today as they had recently sent me a detailed record of contributions which are "S" every year since 1988. They assure me these are eligible for COAP next year so fingers crossed.
I don't know why you're mentioning class K at all when they posted the above earlier in the thread.
 

Freelance

Registered User
Messages
116
Can I focus on the actual topic of this thread, specifically The Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds (not the COAP). In the first post the OP asked "Will I be eligible to draw the 65 yr payment if I am in receipt of an ARF?". While there have been quite a few conflicting answers, it appears to me based on what I am reading here that the answer may be Yes or No, depending on whether or not the ARF distribution exceeds €7,500 pa.

This appears to be highly discriminatory towards ARF holders. Let's take a simple case of a 65 year old who satisfies the PRSI requirements, and who does not have rental/other investment income, or an actual paid working job (subsidiary employment)
  • If the above individual is paid €25,000 from a Defined Benefit pension scheme, then she/he qualifies for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds
  • If the above individual is paid €25,000 from an annuity purchased form a DC pension scheme, then she/he qualifies for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds
  • If the above individual is paid €25,000 from an ARF purchased from a DC pension scheme, then she/he does not qualify for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds
Is this correct ?
Does anybody dispute that this is discriminatory ?
 

Grueler

Registered User
Messages
30
Can I focus on the actual topic of this thread, specifically The Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds (not the COAP). In the first post the OP asked "Will I be eligible to draw the 65 yr payment if I am in receipt of an ARF?". While there have been quite a few conflicting answers, it appears to me based on what I am reading here that the answer may be Yes or No, depending on whether or not the ARF distribution exceeds €7,500 pa.

This appears to be highly discriminatory towards ARF holders. Let's take a simple case of a 65 year old who satisfies the PRSI requirements, and who does not have rental/other investment income, or an actual paid working job (subsidiary employment)
  • If the above individual is paid €25,000 from a Defined Benefit pension scheme, then she/he qualifies for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds
  • If the above individual is paid €25,000 from an annuity purchased form a DC pension scheme, then she/he qualifies for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds
  • If the above individual is paid €25,000 from an ARF purchased from a DC pension scheme, then she/he does not qualify for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds
Is this correct ?
Does anybody dispute that this is discriminatory ?
When I applied I was receiving €20,000 from an ARF purchased from a DC pension scheme and got confirmation of eligibility within a few days.
 

Conan

Registered User
Messages
1,457
Having read the relevant section on MyGov, I cannot see any reference to €7,500 income from an ARF.
 

bstop

Registered User
Messages
361
When I applied I was receiving €20,000 from an ARF purchased from a DC pension scheme and got confirmation of eligibility within a few days.
Good! so that answers the question regarding ARF income.

It appears that investment income classed at Prsi S class over 7500 euro per year might be a problem as Welfare seem to consider this as employment.

Investment income can also be classed at Prsi K class as I have explained previously. This might not be considered as employment as (self employment) Prsi S class does not apply.

I have asked a T.D. to put the following questions to the Social Protection Minister.

Would a person with an ARF distribution of over 7500 euro per year qualify ?

Would a person with investment income over 7500 euro per year subject to PRSI class S qualify?

Would a person with investment income over 7500 euro per year subject to PRSI class K qualify?

In each case the person satisfies all Prsi contribution requirements.
 
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Freelance

Registered User
Messages
116
I have asked a T.D. to put the following questions to the Social Protection Minister.

Would a person with an ARF distribution of over 7500 euro per year qualify ?

Hi @bstop

Did you ever get an answer to the above from your TD - I am specifically interested in whether or not an individual with an ARF distribution of over 7500 euro per year qualifies for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds

Thank you
 

bstop

Registered User
Messages
361
Hi @bstop

Did you ever get an answer to the above from your TD - I am specifically interested in whether or not an individual with an ARF distribution of over 7500 euro per year qualifies for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds

Thank you

This is the reply to the written parliamentary questions asked on by behalf by Neale Richmond T.D.


 
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