Dublin still has highest electricity prices of all EU capitals despite latest fall - 50% higher than before Ukraine war, gas prices are 72% higher

the anti-green agenda is the ideology,
Environmental activists generally have no conceptual understanding of how to trade off environmental objectives against other policy objectives, either over the short not long term. Neither do ideologues on the other side.

Unless someone has an economics or engineering background I tend to heavily discount their opinion on these subjects.
 
Environmental activists generally have no conceptual understanding of how to trade off environmental objectives against other policy objectives, either over the short not long term. Neither do ideologues on the other side.
I don’t disagree with that, but the comment was about the green agenda rather than the activists.

That said, plenty of green voices aren’t ideologues. Here’s a podcast with Michael Leibreich about his “Pragmatic Reset” essays this summer https://spotify.link/jbtOebxNxXb, here’s something from Heat Geek who have been doing trojan work to overcome plumber’s tropes about heat pumps with proper engineering https://youtu.be/ENt9fJBHINQ?si=S49fITwevcAZgUMe.
Then there’s the urbanists like NotJustBikes https://youtu.be/HACaRm2KP6Q?si=3J9ssIssWPfmoSgt who illustrate lots of positive points about well-engineered, clean cities that prioritise humans over cars.

Plenty of pragmatic, clean solutions out there… we just need to get on with delivering them at scale or our kids’ world is gonna be a lot worse than ours!
 
But it's not just the price of the NG input that's the driver, it's the price of electricity generated by NG. And when renewables are prevalent, the fixed costs of NG power have to get amortised across less units of electricity provided.
in that sentance you have explained succintly why countries with high amounts of renewables like Ireland have expensive electricity. The costs of all the infrasructure of installing wind and solar farms aswell as all the infrastructure associated with conventional power stations have to be borne by the consumer because the system has to be able to provide 100% power when there are no renewables available, its the cost of maintaining all that extra infrastructure that makes our electricity so expensive . Twenty years ago Ireland had very competitive electricity prices we were mid range in Europe because we only had the costs of maintaining a conventional power station grid not all the additional costs of wind farms and now solar farms.
 
in that sentance you have explained succintly why countries with high amounts of renewables like Ireland have expensive electricity. The costs of all the infrasructure of installing wind and solar farms aswell as all the infrastructure associated with conventional power stations have to be borne by the consumer because the system has to be able to provide 100% power when there are no renewables available, its the cost of maintaining all that extra infrastructure that makes our electricity so expensive .
Sure, but when do you want to pay the price for climate change? On your national electricity bill today while we transition to more secure local generation sources, or in natural disaster response tomorrow (well, today really!)? Or social upheaval/breakdown? Or in major global conflicts for fresh water resources?

The thing here is that we’re in the transition. At some stage the new “grid” emerges…. expanded off-shore wind including floating, battery tech like sodium-ion, interconnectors so we can trade with other regions of Europe. None of these are pipe dreams, they’re well on their way and they will reshape modern grids everywhere.

Then the same people who complain about traffic while sitting in their cars can complain about the state of our ageing grid!
 
in that sentance you have explained succintly why countries with high amounts of renewables like Ireland have expensive electricity.
Ireland generated 48% electricity from renewables in 2024 while the EU average was 47%. We don’t have high amounts of renewables, we have the average for the EU, yet our retail prices are the highest.
 
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Twenty years ago Ireland had very competitive electricity prices
No we didn't - electricity was always comparatively expensive here.

Our problem here is that every time there is an initiative to upgrade the grid to modern standards there is huge pushback and it gets delayed for years.
And don't start me on relentless objections to renewable generation.
 
No we didn't - electricity was always comparatively expensive here.
I remember distinctly reading an article about our relatively cheap electricity prices compared to our european peers around 25 years ago, that can't be denied now. Of course we didn't have nuclear which other countries had which was relatively more expensive and oil and gas prices were cheap then throughout the 90s and early 2000s as a result of the fall of communism and the full access of russian oil and gas on the global markets. Unfortunately we are now seeing the downsides to that thanks to Putin's idiocy.
 
And Joe, Putin is partly to balme, but we ourselves are to blame ...e.g. claiming moral high ground ban on nuclear energy and oil and gas exploration ban, whilst having zero natural gas storage and 2 gas pipes to scotland leaving ourselves hopeless exposed to any interuptions .
Of the EU countries, aside from Malta and Cypress, we have a small elec grid, high wages, high dependency on imported NGas = > expect high elec prices.
 
With apologies to those with blood pressure issues (myself included.) But it seems we are being royally ripped-off, according to this decent piece from RTE today.


Late last month, the International Energy Agency (IEA) published a report highlighting energy retail prices in Ireland are three times higher than wholesale prices, meaning that essentially companies are charging customers three times more for energy than what they are paying.

According to the IEA, the gap between what energy providers pay on the wholesale market and what they charge customers for the same energy is one of the highest in the world.

In addition, Irish electricity customers are paying among the highest rates across the 27 EU members.

If energy companies were struggling to stay afloat, then all of this might make sense

But this does not seem to be the case.
 
According to the IEA, the gap between what energy providers pay on the wholesale market and what they charge customers for the same energy is one of the highest in the world.
one of the biggest players now in the energy market is BnM a state owned company, it has never made as much money since it essentially transitioned to wind farms. BnM doesn't sell electricity on the retail markets yet it is still able to make fat profits, so there is plenty of money being made even before it is sold on the retail markets, these companies need to levied with the cost of providing power when the wind is not blowing rather than that cost being pushed back onto the grid .
 
I have been going to a bit of effort on trying to be energy efficient recently, getting solar scheduled, have an EV plan with an 8c rate between 2am and 4am. I won't go fully in a say run the dryer overnight for safety.

However all this is really just about trying to minimise the impact. My extra cheap rate of 8c between 2-4am was the standard night rate less than 10 years ago. Solar is an obvious option these days purely because we have become so expensive. Its not a saving on what was normal costs but trying to prevent the hits.

We talk so much about neutrality, I think there is a lot to be said for neutrality but for me that requires an element of self sufficiency, at least for critical services such as energy. I would be of the view that you can't trust anyone, well at least not 100%, they will do what is in their best interest. We should be doing what we can to be as self reliant as possible. I would be more open to paying higher prices if that were the trade off even.
 
I remember distinctly reading an article about our relatively cheap electricity prices compared to our european peers around 25 years ago, that can't be denied now. Of course we didn't have nuclear which other countries had which was relatively more expensive and oil and gas prices were cheap then throughout the 90s and early 2000s as a result of the fall of communism and the full access of russian oil and gas on the global markets. Unfortunately we are now seeing the downsides to that thanks to Putin's idiocy.
Only VERY briefly - when various fresh wells came on stream, and only briefly as they quickly were used up and fields such as Seven Heads failed to deliver on expectations completely.
 
I remember distinctly reading an article about our relatively cheap electricity prices compared to our european peers around 25 years ago, that can't be denied now. Of course we didn't have nuclear which other countries had which was relatively more expensive and oil and gas prices were cheap then throughout the 90s and early 2000s as a result of the fall of communism and the full access of russian oil and gas on the global markets. Unfortunately we are now seeing the downsides to that thanks to Putin's idiocy.
While Nuclear provides constant clean renewable and safe power it is more expensive than wind and solar. The saving is found in the fact that if we had Nuclear we wouldn't need the extra back-up hydrocarbon burning capacity for when the wind isn't blowing. That said an integrated European Grid would also mitigate a lot of that problem.
 
It is an issue I have pondered on a lot myself.... a claimed 30% of our feed-in to the national grid comes from renewable sources yet our prices are far higher than before Covid (unrelated, just picking a reference time). My own thought is that it is down to regulation where feed-in tariffs are benchmarked against wholesale gas prices to massively incentivise wind power etc.

Wholesale gas prices spiked in summer 2022 but have fallen dramatically since then, like by something like 60 - 70%. Yet, retail prices are still massively higher than they were pre summer 2022...... the upshot is I have no idea what is going on, why we have such high retail prices!!!
 
It is an issue I have pondered on a lot myself.... a claimed 30% of our feed-in to the national grid comes from renewable sources yet our prices are far higher than before Covid (unrelated, just picking a reference time). My own thought is that it is down to regulation where feed-in tariffs are benchmarked against wholesale gas prices to massively incentivise wind power etc.
Was listening to a podcast yesterday re German and UK grids, and the point was made that there has been a shift from wholesale fuel prices dictating costs to grid infrastructure investment dictating a much larger share of the costs than previously. It is important to remember that national grids are being reconfigured from monolithic on-demand generation capacity to increasingly distributed, variable sources of generation.
 
a shift from wholesale fuel prices dictating costs to grid infrastructure investment dictating a much larger share of the costs than previously.

Reminds me of a project I worked on for a local government (out side of Ireland) where we were setting costs for recycling, rubbish and green waste collection. The cost had been set arbitrary, recycling was free when you got the other two. Then there was different size wheely bins and the like. People expected that if they recycled more they could downsize the rubbish bin by half and safe money.

However when you look at the true costs it didn't really work like that, recycling wasn't really free even if you could sell the material for some small revenue, the difference in processing cost of landfilling or incinerating the rubbish between sizes was very small in the total scheme of thing, trucks on the road, staff time, travel time etc.

Very hard to explain how much fixed costs there are. Of course you can try and make the claim that the guy with more rubbish should pay more staff time even though it takes the same...
 
The cost of energy is only part of the problem.

Our mediocre climate has allowed us to get away with building rubbish for generations. Build like we used to build in, say, Norway and we would freeze to death.

A work colleague from the sub-continent who is used to lows of only 20 degrees in winter, bought an A-rated townhouse - two bed, three bath, solar panels and heat pump - in the summer. It is now at a constant 24 degrees. Everything in the house is electric.

Electricity bill for the last two months….?

€45.

D.
 
Data centre in the shed reduces energy bills to £40

This is a very interesting trial for low-income households in the UK:

An Essex couple have become the first people in the country to trial a scheme that sees them heat their home using a data centre in their garden shed.

Terrence and Lesley Bridges have seen their energy bills drop dramatically, from £375 a month down to as low as £40, since they swapped their gas boiler for a HeatHub – a small data centre containing more than 500 computers.
 
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