Dubai purchase - beware of what ?

[irish_bob]

Irish Bob - may I ask if you placed it with some Real Estate agent or how you've placed your Dubai prop on the market ?
I'm thinking sale right now and need to make a move in that direction.
I appreciate the response and wonder if there aren't many others in the same boat who are also faced with similar difficulties ?

i bought the property through larionovo and larionovo through thier associates are trying to sell it

 

[Guest106]

Yea.....I'm with the Larionovo (now Profile) setup too.
Time to get really serious. No doubt we will all be a lot wiser shortly.

 

[annette mac]

Why do some people have such problems with others buying abroad? I fear the "green-eyed monster" is rearing his ugly head! I make no apologies to anyone for doing so, anything I have I've worked for, when I do eventually retire I intend to spend my year happily living between 4 countries and properties (a relative has another property which we'll swap). The possibility of keeping active and interested by challenging myself to learn and use different languages and assimilate into different cultures is infinitely preferable than doing same old, same old at home all the time. Buying off plan is the norm and makes a great deal of sense (provided you've done your homework) the time between buying and completion allows time to get your finances and the legalities sorted and for capital appreciation to take place. Incidentially, I've made it my business to speak to the locals where I've bought and without exception they've welcomed development because it means there are service and constructions jobs available where none existed before.

 

[Camry]

I started this thread about Dubai purchases back in early August and got lots of useful comments in response and then it dried up. I'm giving it another shot now because I've held on and not tried to sell and all the while wondering if I should try my luck for a sale or sit tight for awhile.
Now in very recent days, a lot of negative stuff beginning to emerge about Dubai and I'm awondering if I've missed the boat. Just considering what my best option is now and trying to figure what's coming down the line.
Am I with a lot of others about to be screwed ?

You jumped into a leaking boat.

You were provided with some sage (if perhaps a little bluntly worded) advice a few months back and you told the posters where to stick it.

You were duped - apartments were never selling for 100% of what you paid. That was just the price of entry to the pyrmaid scheme for the final rouind of punters.

 

[Mrs.B]

I really hope your post is in jest Annette?

 

[irish_bob]

Yea.....I'm with the Larionovo (now Profile) setup too.
Time to get really serious. No doubt we will all be a lot wiser shortly.

do you get a call from one of thier sales people every month all enthusiastic that they have a buyer primed and ready to snap up your property , i had communication for 3 straight months with one of thier reps over in dubai , it progressed so far on that i even got a notory to do his thing , then the so called buyer just threw the whole thing up , i am starting to believe that theese reps calling me up is nothing but a front to give the impression that my appartment can be sold , i honestly believe i will never see a penny from this investment ,all development companys who deal in overseas property are cowboys

 

[Guest106]

No, I haven't received any calls yet. I have received spammy type Emails asking if I would care to list my property for sale or let with the sender.
All these dumped/deleted for the rubbish that they surely are.
Problem I now have is to try to figure how to advertise my place without ending up in a nest of vipers.
I'm told that there's a company here in Dublin who are active in property acquisition in Dubai and can provide all the backup services, etc.
Gonna try and connect with that company if I can be convinced that they are genuine. I'm in info acquisition mode currently and trying to consider every option carefully.
Since these companies are still advertising here in the print and sound media, I'm wondering why, if things are OK., that they don't come on and make an up front statement. They can't be unaware of the unease that's now eating away at people like myself and my spouse.
I queried the state of the market with the former principal and was told 'maybe not a good time to sell'.....you'd be better to lease it out for a while and then go for a sale' Haven't taken that advice as I'm not convinced that a sitting tenant would make it easier to sell.

 

[Steve D]

Buying off plan is the norm and makes a great deal of sense (provided you've done your homework) the time between buying and completion allows time to get your finances and the legalities sorted and for capital appreciation to take place.

Are you serious or are you just taking the mickey? If you are serious how do you cope with buying off plan when the market is falling where you make capital losses? Property does not continue rising forever, you know and now the worldwide bubble has burst.

 

[oceanclub]

I really hope your post is in jest Annette?

Perhaps after bailing out Irish developers, Annette will suggest we start bailing out Dubai developers. Sure, Irish nurses would love a Dubai apartment or two.

P.

 

[oceanclub]

I started this thread about Dubai purchases back in early August and got lots of useful comments in response and then it dried up. I'm giving it another shot now because I've held on and not tried to sell and all the while wondering if I should try my luck for a sale or sit tight for awhile.
Now in very recent days, a lot of negative stuff beginning to emerge about Dubai and I'm awondering if I've missed the boat. Just considering what my best option is now and trying to figure what's coming down the line.
Am I with a lot of others about to be screwed ?

Two months ago you said you would have made a 100% profit if you sold. Why exactly did you hang on?

P.

 

[Guest106]

Family considerations and influences. Being solo traders (wife & I) and not property professionals, took our eye off the ball. We regret our missed opportunity. To be fair about it, there are mixed signals these days about Dubai. Not all reports are negative. But small time players like us are still likely to want out at the first opportunity if only because of the global turbulence in financial and property markets.

 

[annette mac]

Despite Oceanclub's distortion it was never my intention to bail out Irish developers. My suggestion was that we use the buyer's market we are now in to provide homes for people who need them. There are still huge waiting lists for local authority housing and local authorities are paying huge amounts of money to landlords for bed and breakfast accommodation. I see no reason why local authorities shouldn't use their allocations to negotiate good deals with builders. My suggestion has since been reiterated by some of the voluntary housing agencies.

As to buying off plan, obviously timing is everything, but the point I was making is that there's nothing wrong with buying off plan in principle, it's the norm in many countries and became increasingly common here during the property boom. Without a doubt some people were caught both here and abroad by both a falling market and also by builders not completing developments but equally many people benefitted by buying houses at a fixed price in a rising market when builders felt free to charge whatever they thought the market would bear.

I haven't bought property abroad to either rent, "flip" or making a killing from, and I haven't taken out mortgages either. I bought somewhere in the sun, because I like a little of it and I bought somewhere else because I love the cultural life there. Both properties have increased in value but that value has gone up and down and I view it in much the same way as I do the value of my house here. It's my home and even though I felt much wealthier two years ago when it was worth more, it didn't make any difference to my income or to how I lived and anyway, it was all on paper and if I'd sold at a very high price, I still needed somewhere to live and I'd have had to buy at a high price too. My properties abroad are used and loved by family and friends and I cannot imagine a better investment.

 

[oceanclub]

Despite Oceanclub's distortion it was never my intention to bail out Irish developers. My suggestion was that we use the buyer's market we are now in...

We're not in a buyer's market. Houses prices are going down. Buyers are voting with their wallets and adopting a position of wait-and-see. Yet you advocate that the government takes the taxes from these taxpayers and use them to prop up a falling market. The government should have been buying property for council tenants before, not when the market is falling.

We have a government that has used a budget to take money from the elderly, from schools and from the low-paid, and introduced a so-called first-time-buyers scheme that's sole purpose is to prop up developers (if it wasn't, then why are FTBers unable to avail of this scheme to buy second-hand properties).

P.

 

[annette mac]

How on earth can you say they should have bought before when the market was going up and yet argue that they should not buy now when the market is going down? Local authorities have money allocated to provide housing and they can use that money and their considerable clout in a depressed market to get better value for taxpayers money. That's what I and the voluntary housing agencies are argueing for.

 

[oceanclub]

How on earth can you say they should have bought before when the market was going up and yet argue that they should not buy now when the market is going down?

Erm, for exactly the same reason for investors do so; so they won't lose money. If I have to explain this basic principle - don't buy something when it's losing value - I don't think this conversation is worth continuing.

Local authorities have money allocated to provide housing and they can use that money and their considerable clout in a depressed market to get better value for taxpayers money.

Right. You think that housing authorities - most of which I imagine are controlled by Fianna Fail - are going to use the current market as an opportunity to screw their developer friends. This is the exactly same party which used the current budget to tax the low-paid, remove medical cards from the elderly, yet brought up measures to prop up developers?

How stupid do you think we are?

P.

 

[MichaelDes]

This is the exactly same party which used the current budget to tax the low-paid, remove medical cards from the elderly, yet brought up measures to prop up developers? How stupid do you think we are? P.

Bravo and well said.

How stupid do you think we are? P.

Anyone buying property presently whether at home or abroad, or council’s bottom fishing etc would in my humble opinion have to be plainly very stupid indeed.

Perceptions of value can be easily illustrated - A property is listed for sale at e120k and person A thought the price nuts and unacheivable. Then over the years prices increased to e160k then /190k/225k/265k/310k - the e120k price to person A began to look cheaper and cheaper. The inverse to this perception is now happening and accelerating.

Just because domestic property and international property have taken 20%-30% haircuts does not instill value. Value is only achieved in these investments if either yield is over 8% or the cost of the average property is 4.5 times to 6 times local average salary.

Now is not the time for contrarian investments.

During this great unwind which will last another 24 months minimum, property purchase couldn't be at a worse time. Houses are directly related to credit derivatives, and as you know credit derivatives are presently experiencing the largest meltdown in the history of the financial system. It's much better to watch the explosions from the side lines and remain with cash.

Re: Dubai purchase - beware of what ?

1. Beware of not making any money, and have deep pockets to subsidise cash flow.
2. Beware of Dubai being the biggest global Ponzi scheme still on the go.

 

[irish_bob]

Bravo and well said.



Anyone buying property presently whether at home or abroad, or council’s bottom fishing etc would in my humble opinion have to be plainly very stupid indeed.

Perceptions of value can be easily illustrated - A property is listed for sale at e120k and person A thought the price nuts and unacheivable. Then over the years prices increased to e160k then /190k/225k/265k/310k - the e120k price to person A began to look cheaper and cheaper. The inverse to this perception is now happening and accelerating.

Just because domestic property and international property have taken 20%-30% haircuts does not instill value. Value is only achieved in these investments if either yield is over 8% or the cost of the average property is 4.5 times to 6 times local average salary.

Now is not the time for contrarian investments.

During this great unwind which will last another 24 months minimum, property purchase couldn't be at a worse time. Houses are directly related to credit derivatives, and as you know credit derivatives are presently experiencing the largest meltdown in the history of the financial system. It's much better to watch the explosions from the side lines and remain with cash.



1. Beware of not making any money, and have deep pockets to subsidise cash flow.
2. Beware of Dubai being the biggest global Ponzi scheme still on the go.

ive already made 3 installments to the tune of 100k to larionovo for an appartment in sports city , i have one more installment to make of 40 k upon completion next yr , i have more or less decided that i will not make this final installment as loosing 100k is preferable to loosing 140 k

 

[ecstatic]

irish_bob tell me more about your position.

if your willing to write off 100k ill pay u 5k personally and take your contract and complete for 40k based on apartment been a reasonable size.

Bubbles that burst in states was 40% downward trend your pricing in a drop off 66% without even knowing more it seems your going a little bit overboard with your running.

Off scope i think dubai is a disaster i wouldnt buy there and i hear the government have finance problems, however there is a certain price that may be the bottom.

 

[Guest106]

What is the explanation now for the much hyped merger between Larionovo and Profile recently ?
Should that now be seen as a move to muddy shallow waters ?
An exercise in smoke and mirrors ?
Trade on the hype and hope for a miracle ?
The silence from that quarter right now speaks volumes.

 

[irish_bob]

irish_bob tell me more about your position.

if your willing to write off 100k ill pay u 5k personally and take your contract and complete for 40k based on apartment been a reasonable size.

Bubbles that burst in states was 40% downward trend your pricing in a drop off 66% without even knowing more it seems your going a little bit overboard with your running.

Off scope i think dubai is a disaster i wouldnt buy there and i hear the government have finance problems, however there is a certain price that may be the bottom.

your off course pulling my leg