Discussion: Why are people paying the local property tax (LPT )?

Who are we kiding, people who are renting will not pay a property tax? where is the landlord going to get it from? by upping the rent, the landlord cannot afford to loose out either.
 
Renters are not liable for the propery tax, landlords are liable for the properties they own.
 
Rents are going up as we speak, Landlords are loading it into new leases and renewals , some I know are aiming to make a profit, e.g. Property tax on BTL 250 per year , extra rent 50 - 100 per month.

I think people wouldn't feel so aggrieved at paying the tax if they didn't have to constantly witness wasteful spending by government ,councils, etc .
Change is far too slow.

Pick your battles. Don't fight battles you cant win.
 
?guy said:
Fristly, I have no intentions on paying this tax, I will return the unopened letter to sender. The only way I will pay this tax is if they take it at source, and yes I know that they may do that.

Yet everyone seems willing to pay it.

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You asked for honest opinion. I think you're very silly not to pay it. Apart from the fact that it's the law and they can deduct it at source you will eventually end up paying for it anyway one way or the other. Either via a property sale or on death.

People are willing to pay for it in the sense that it's a tax (and I could rant about waste here but don't want to go off topic) and it's better to pay and be sorted than to have it hanging over one. (and I could go on about stamp duty I've paid too and Negative equity etc). Somebody somewhere is going to have to pay for everything, ie taxpayers. No way around it.

But you can join the moral high ground of the non payers along with those not paying household charge and NPPR etc all you want. All the non payers (and I know plenty) only result in other compliant tax payers having to fork out more.
 
While I may not like it, I will also be paying it because it is the law. Unlike the household charge, they have the resources to collect it one way or the other... But more importantly in my eyes, other countries such as France have had this tax in place for a long time and it does make sense. While it may not been seen fair, and I am using the term loosely, there is no choice. Same with water charges! We pay for water and trust me, this means we are careful with its usage...this is a separate topic though.
 
I don't think it's fair to justify the property tax on the basis that "other countries have it". You have to look at taxation in the round, and it is very difficult to compare the total tax burden across countries. My attitude to it is one of resignation. There is no doubt that this is just another tax to pay for the fallout of our banking disaster and our former reliance on property transaction taxes. Saying that the tax is going to local councils is just a smoke screen -- it will be accompanied by a withdrawal of central funds, so really the money is going to the exchequer to pay down our debts. By the same token, there is no point in complaining about it -- they're going to get you one way or another. And it is the thin end of the wedge ... come next October we will have another austerity budget unveiled and it will be at least as unpleasant as anything that has gone before.
 
Although it’s the law, it is morally wrong, people who cannot pay their mortgage have nothing to pay the property tax, same as people on very small state pensions. You cannot get blood out of a stone.
 
For what it's worth, I didn't agree with the flat-rate, household charge and didn't pay it. I will, however, be paying the 130 next month to avoid it 'hanging over me'.

I do agree with the LPT and, although it'll inflict pain in the short term, it'll be fine in the long term. People need to look further ahead than this year or next year's payments.

When we pull through the recession, the country will have a more sustainable tax base and people will have taken the affordability of this tax into account before they even purchase a house.
 
roker said:
Although it’s the law, it is morally wrong, people who cannot pay their mortgage have nothing to pay the property tax, same as people on very small state pensions. You cannot get blood out of a stone.
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Not a valid argument in my opinion.

There are many landlords for whom the rent doesn't cover the mortgages on their properties and, therefore, they can't afford to pay their income tax when the time comes to file their tax returns.

Does this mean that they shouldn't have to pay income tax?

Recessions are tough - people need to realise that and cut down on the luxuries. I know of plenty people going on foreign holidays this year who are on social welfare benefits. Where is the logic in that?
 
?guy said:
...
Only a few years ago the government told us we need to live within our means is not time they take there own advise. I'd like to see harsh decisions make like a private company would to bring its books back in line not just add another tax (band aid) to it....
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Hi,

There's nothing to stop you kicking a bit of a$$ to help address this, my friend.

You have various ways to contact both your local TDs and seperately, all other TDs, Ministers etc.

There is definitely opportuinity for a few new topics to emerge from this one ... but think it's best they are started in their own parts of this website (I'm off to start one on RTE, to get the ball rolling ;))

Regards

Mr. Earl.
 
Just to follow up, I have written a letter to my local TD's advising my concerns and that I will not be paying this tax.

I don't expect anything to come from it. but I just feel sick of being walk over by this government and I feel if we continue to allow it go on without doing something (not matter how small) then we as a people are to blame not the government.

Is a parent not responsible for a childs bad behaviour if they don't correct them. If we elected a group and allow them to continue making policy we don't agree with then are not to blame, not the government.

Would we be in the situation / mess are in if we (as a people) had took more of a stand would we have accepted the bank guarantee, or would they have allowed them self to be pushed into the EU/IMF deal.

Ok rant over, I'll consider this thread closed and disappear into the abyss. Thanks for the honest feedbak
 
?guy said:
Just to follow up, I have written a letter to my local TD's advising my concerns and that I will not be paying this tax.

I don't expect anything to come from it. but I just feel sick of being walk over by this government and I feel if we continue to allow it go on without doing something (not matter how small) then we as a people are to blame not the government.

Is a parent not responsible for a childs bad behaviour if they don't correct them. If we elected a group and allow them to continue making policy we don't agree with then are not to blame, not the government.

Would we be in the situation / mess are in if we (as a people) had took more of a stand would we have accepted the bank guarantee, or would they have allowed them self to be pushed into the EU/IMF deal.

Ok rant over, I'll consider this thread closed and disappear into the abyss. Thanks for the honest feedbak
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I don't think you really understand democracy.

The Bank Guarantee was brought in over night by the previous government - do you think a referendum should have been held to approve it? How would that have stopped a run on the banks similar to Northern Rock?

The previous government agreed to a property tax being introduced as part of the Troika conditions, where would we have received our loans from without that?
 
It is a notice that we got in the door. Am I correct in that a notice is an obligation to pay but not a requirement to pay ? Not replying to the notice renders you into the contract, paying the notice renders you into the contract.

Did you guys hear the youtube video where the guy from the household charge company told the person on the phone that he was not legally obliged to pay the household charge but that it was in the law. Is this not the same thing ?

If we are legally obliged to pay it - should we not be getting an invoice or a bill and not a notice ??
 
You will be "done" for failing to make a return.

Return a zero or greatly reduced amount without verifiable proof e.g. recent sales of similar properties in your area etc. You will be done for supplying a false return.

I know a lot of people who are in such financial distress that they just don't care anymore and not afraid of either the Revenue or the Gardai. If revenue push people too hard on this they may just get pushed back. As the man said " You cant get blood from a stone " but you may just get hit over the head with the stone and then you will have your blood.
 
alexandra123 said:
It is a notice that we got in the door. Am I correct in that a notice is an obligation to pay but not a requirement to pay ? Not replying to the notice renders you into the contract, paying the notice renders you into the contract.

Did you guys hear the youtube video where the guy from the household charge company told the person on the phone that he was not legally obliged to pay the household charge but that it was in the law. Is this not the same thing ?

If we are legally obliged to pay it - should we not be getting an invoice or a bill and not a notice ??
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This is this "Freemnn stuff" and it is total BS!!! If you follow this stuff there is only one sure outcome - jail, as many of their followers have discovered.

Here is a comment on it from thejournal.ie, there is a better analysis somewhere by a barrister but I don't have time to track it down right now.
 
I’m happy to pay it.
I agree in principle with the property tax as it broadens the tax base and moves us away from transaction taxes.
I also support it for a very unpopular reason (or maybe that should be un-populist); the main targets for tax increases over the last few years are the people who already pay the most tax. We have the most “progressive” income tax system in Europe and the second most “progressive” income tax system in the OECD (after Israel). That means that people pay a higher proportion of their income sooner and at a higher marginal rate than in other countries. We still have a system where half the income tax is paid by 5% of the people and, excluding USC, nearly half of all earners don’t pay any income tax. People in Ireland earning €35’000 pay less than half the income tax of the average EU citizen on the same income. Without this broadening of the tax base the same populist BS would be trotted out about “the rich” not paying their fair share and “the most vulnerable in society” getting targeted and those that pay most would be asked to pay more yet again. Fairness? That would be nice.
 
The Freeman movement is very dangerous, it is misleading people and walking them into a whole deal of trouble.
With regard to democracy, the people of Meath endorsed the property tax yesterday.
 
The revenue will pursue unpaid property tax. They will also collect unpaid household charges. If you have no past experience of being on the wrong side with the revenue then its going to be a steep and expenses learning. Think about it clearly before bringing unnecessary trouble to the door.
 
alexandra123 said:
It is a notice that we got in the door. Am I correct in that a notice is an obligation to pay but not a requirement to pay ? Not replying to the notice renders you into the contract, paying the notice renders you into the contract.


If we are legally obliged to pay it - should we not be getting an invoice or a bill and not a notice ??
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Alexandra, what or who has managed to make you think like this? You realise it's complete nonsense. I do hope that whoever has managed to persuade you that what you've written is true are not receiving any money from you.

Have you decided based on what you've posted to not pay it? And what are you going to do if the council take you to court to fine you etc? What will you do then?
 
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