Discussion: Why are people paying the local property tax (LPT )?

?

?guy

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Fristly, I have no intentions on paying this tax, I will return the unopened letter to sender. The only way I will pay this tax is if they take it at source, and yes I know that they may do that.

What I want to know is, why are people willing to paying this, do they believe its a deserved or justified tax ?

I find it difficult to understand how this is warranted and how it will be spent, I purchased a house in 2010 and as part of the price I pay, the builder paid a local developed free to the local council, (which was wrapped into the total price I paid), not to mention VAT and other forms of tax from the build of the house.

We pay for our bin collection, Water charges are to be introduced. GP and Prescription costs are ridiculous and I wont say anything about our Hospitals and the fees we have to pay for medical coverage because the public system will take a life time to get seen.

I don't see how this tax is justified or what it will be spent on.

Yet everyone seems willing to pay it.

Before anyone goes off at my, I'm an honest citizen, ever missed paying a bill or mortgage payment and have worked for the past 14 years.

Just curious of peoples opinions.
 
Hello,

Simple answer here to be honest - it's part of the cost of living in Ireland.

We can all moan and complain about various issues relating to the State's finances, be it high costs, low revenues, the size of the national debt, the competence of the people running the country etc but basically we're stuck with it ...

No point in being overly depressed complaining about something we can't do anything about (other than perhaps the level of property tax we elect to pay) ...

Regards

Mr. Earl.
 
1. It's the law - some of us still have respect for democracy
2. It's about broadening the tax base so that we aren't as dependant on transaction taxes as we were during the boom when stamp duty made up a huge part of our tax income.
3. Property Taxes are a good idea.
 
It is the law, regardless of whether you approve or dissapprove of the LPT.

Resistance is futile, those who resist will simply be absorbed by the system.
 
They pay it in other european countries that are less well off then ourselves, Portugal have been paying it for years
 
I slightly shudder when people state that one must obey the law because it's the law.

People broke the laws against contraception ,homosexuality and censorship in this country only 10-30 years ago.
Were they wrong?
Legally, yes.
Morally,no.

I'm also not too sure on the democracy argument. If one voted for parties that promised they would not introduce such a property tax -and then did, who is being anti-democtratic? The government or the so-called law-breaker?

If one believes that there is no moral justification for someone who has no equity in a property being fined (or taxed) for "owning" that property I fully understand his/her refusal to pay.
 
?guy said:
Fristly, I have no intentions on paying this tax, I will return the unopened letter to sender. The only way I will pay this tax is if they take it at source, and yes I know that they may do that.

What I want to know is, why are people willing to paying this, do they believe its a deserved or justified tax ?.

YES.

I strongly support local taxes.

I don't support high VAT or high MTRs on 30-40k average incomes.

I don't agree with 52% MTR on 32,800 in Irl. Crazy.


I find it difficult to understand how this is warranted and how it will be spent, I purchased a house in 2010 and as part of the price I pay, the builder paid a local developed free to the local council, (which was wrapped into the total price I paid), not to mention VAT and other forms of tax from the build of the house.
We pay for our bin collection, Water charges are to be introduced.

The LPT will go to local councils.

Their central Govt grant will be cut, so the LPT replaces other LA income.

The council won't have extra income.

You won't get extra services.




GP and Prescription costs are ridiculous

Agreed. The IMF requested that we liberalise the GP sector, which is happening, slowly.

Pharma costs are still way too high.

and I wont say anything about our Hospitals and the fees we have to pay for medical coverage because the public system will take a life time to get seen.

The public health system isn't as bad as is perceived. Health ins is sold due to fear.


I don't see how this tax is justified or what it will be spent on.

There are strong economic arguments for property taxes.

It won't be spent on anything new or different.

Yet everyone seems willing to pay it.

No, there are campaigns against it, and plenty of people won't pay.

Just curious of peoples opinions.
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Just a few comments.
 
I for one will be paying it as I like to be tax compliant. I believe that it is a fair tax and most western countries have some form of property tax. It's essentially a wealth tax and by nature is actually equitable, the more ones house is worth, the more one pays. I dislike the negative attitude I hear from a lot of my peers in relation to various taxes and charges in Ireland. Over the years it would appear that a significant section of society have developed a nasty mèFein attitude. As a nation our current set of books are in significant deficit and until we can pay for day to day running of the state then these incremental taxes and charges are here to stay.
 
No, pudds, you're talking about income tax which is does reflect one's ability to pay.

This property tax does not do that. It says that if one owes 500k on a house worth 250k and is paying a massive mortgage that person should pay more than the guy who owes nothing on a 250k property.
 
I suppose at the end of the day the property is still valued at the same price - 250, 000. The same property tax will apply.

Some people may have investments while still having a mortgage.

Marion
 
The question of fairness doesn't really come into the current tax increases or spending cuts. It's all based on the fundamentally unfair situation foisted on us five years ago (and incubated in the previous ten). I'll be paying it because it's legal, I can afford it, and the country is on its knees.
 
oldnick said:
No, pudds, you're talking about income tax which is does reflect one's ability to pay.

This property tax does not do that. It says that if one owes 500k on a house worth 250k and is paying a massive mortgage that person should pay more than the guy who owes nothing on a 250k property.
Click to expand...


I know odnick, believe me, I was just posting with tongue in cheek just couldn't resist. Can't believe people like pugwall 'believe it's a fair tax'


They have property tax in other countries
Click to expand...

I love that quote, but they get a lot of services in return for that, and what do we get now...as everything is or going to be privatised.:(
 
Hi Cashier

Agree. But if I could rent a similar house to my own for a fraction of the expense - well I'd be happy to call that my home as well. :) But that's kinda lala land.

Marion
 
I don't consider myself a fool. I'd prefer not to pay any taxes at all.

But who, exactly, do you think is going to pay the running costs of the country if we don't contribute?

Marion
 
I will be paying the property tax as I think its right that property owners (landlords etc) should pay a tax rather than renters who have enough to pay with utility bills, water charges, refuse charges etc.

If I was to consider not paying a tax it would be the RTÉ "Rabbitte" Tax.
 
I'll also be paying it - and think it's a good idea.

For the homeowners of today, it's another expense during what are very tough times.

However, for the homeowners of tomorrow, the requirement to pay this tax (at whatever rate it settles at before starting to rise similar to a level matching inflation - as is happening in the UK) will be factored into the house purchase along with other expenses such as mortgage and utilities.

Logically, if a mortgage over 30 years at 5% costs someone €650 per €10,000 per annum and the property tax settles at around the €650 level, then people buying houses in 5-10 years time should be spending €10,000 less than what they are now (as the banks, in theory, should be looking at this expense when calculating affordability criteria).

Sure, it screws us current homeowners to a certain extent - especially those in negative equity with unmanageable mortgages. However, for those who can find a means to pay it, look at the long term positive impact this tax will have to the country as a whole.
 
I appreciate everyone response however I don't agree with the attitude that we should pay it to help the country / government etc.... Would people still have that attitude if our government decided to take Cyprus approach and tax current accounts by 30% "to help our country" .
I accept we need to help where we can and in the last few years the USC was introduced along with bin charges and soon to be water rates. I have no problem pay for a service but I fail to see what LPT is going to be used for.
Only a few years ago the government told us we need to live within our means is not time they take there own advise. I'd like to see harsh decisions make like a private company would to bring its books back in line not just add another tax (band aid) to it
I believe the government is elected to run the country based upon the will of the people (or something like that !!) and this can only be legal if the people of Ireland accept it. We have seen how the grey voter can turn a decision, with that idea i presume that most people belive in this tax I am wondering why people are accepting this.

Anyway rant over .... I don't agree with this tax and don't plan to pay it.
 
... Would people still have that attitude if our government decided to take Cyprus approach and tax current accounts by 30% "to help our country" .[|quote]
Yes. Most definitely. I would definitely have preferred a 30% haircut in current accounts than a reduction in my salary. No contest. ;)


Marion
Click to expand...
 
The property tax

I will also be paying this tax ,however I have written earlier this month the following letter to all government departments including revenue ( sir or madam
, as the person responsible for running this household, and in view all taxes present and planned by this temporary administeration
I have decided that from 1/3/13 all letters that require reading at this address must be accompanied by a cheque for €70 and upon clearance the letter will be read.
If a reply is required however, the letter must be accompanied by a cheque for €140 and upon clearance a reply will issue within one month.
Failure to reply or respond in a meaningful way will result in no letters being read so no reply can issue )
I await a reply eamo
 
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