Current public sentiment towards the housing market?

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I know thats the problem with going against the grain!! I feel the exact same as that. But people dont want to hear the fundamental reasons why you should not buy now. They just think you are mad.

What do mean house prices are going to go down? Rent is dead money!! But you cant lose with property!! But I dont want to miss the out before its too late. But johnny down the road made a fortune with his house!! blah blah!!

The media, banks and EA's have everybody brainwashed in this country. Thats why it might take a bit longer for a crash to kick in. It is going to be so hard for most people to drop their asking price. They just wont understand the fact that the reason nobody is buying their house is because it is too expensive. They will struggle on for months giving out that nobody is coming to view it before they will drop the price. Sure property doesnt go down in value!!! Thats insane!!!!
 
is that why you were so interested in the IT's rationale for buying MyHome.ie, then?

No. I'm fascinated by the juxtaposition between the IT's coverage of a manic speculative market driven by ignorance and blind greed. And their self-appointed role as Ireland's quality newspaper, which would suggest a degree of aloof high mindedness. I loathe hypocrisy.
 
As the sentiment looks like it's now pegged firmly in the slowdown/crash side, I propose a new question: How far do you think things will fall?

There are three elements to that:

1) Assuming an over-reaction, what do you think a likely percentage fall is?
2) What sort of fall would return prices to sound fundamentals?
3) What time frame are we looking at for hitting the bottom, and then to the return to "correct" prices.

I bought in 2001. Since then, my property has gone up almost 100%. As far as I can see, none of that was merited, but the price I paid in 2001 seems like a reasonable price -- comparing it to what it would likely rent for.

I can see falls of 50% (bringing it back to what I consider a fair price) happening in the next 2-3 years. I doubt it'll fall quicker than that, but I could be wrong.
 
Here's another significant drop, this is the second time the asking price has been dropped on this one in Sutton:

Original Price: €835,000


New Price: €750,000
[broken link removed]=

It was at €795,000 for a few months in between.
 
I can see falls of 50% (bringing it back to what I consider a fair price) happening in the next 2-3 years. I doubt it'll fall quicker than that, but I could be wrong.
People seem to be dismissing the idea of 50% falls, but I agree with you that it's more than possible. If you accept the notion that rents versus purchase price is the housing equivalent of a P/E ratio, to return us to our long term average "housing P/E ratio" in Dublin would require a fall of at least 50%.
 
As the sentiment looks like it's now pegged firmly in the slowdown/crash side, I propose a new question: How far do you think things will fall?

How long is a piece of string? I'm assuming a correction of between 10%-30% of the next three to four years in nominal terms. That will be a 50% correction or more in real terms. Once things bottom out it is unlikely we'll see double digit growth in houses again for quite some time.
 
I can see falls of 50% (bringing it back to what I consider a fair price) happening in the next 2-3 years. I doubt it'll fall quicker than that, but I could be wrong.
I agree, 50% seems about right, although not in all areas. Some of the more "optimistically" priced properties could fall even further, while for good locations you might be looking at 20-30% dropoffs. This time next year the dust should be clearing, I reckon.
 

Net Yields on investment property in the 2-3% range at present. I estimate that they will rise to 7-8% over the next couple of years. (still low by historic standards) Oversupply, a sharp global slowdown and rising unemployment will play a part, a credit squeeze and emigration by guest workers and natives will add to the the markets woes. So a drop of approx 50% over several years.
 
Since i think i called the crash here first i am going to reiterate again my figure of a fall.

40% by xmas. Main Dublin market with the obvious exceptions. (i.e. leafy surburbs)
 
Since i think i called the crash here first i am going to reiterate again my figure of a fall.

40% by xmas. Main Dublin market with the obvious exceptions. (i.e. leafy surburbs)

Can see 40% eventually, but not by Christmas.

I know you've justified this before by saying that the 40% drop would take a few more months beyond Christmas to materialise, but I think the rest of us consider a 40% drop to have occurred when houses are actually sold for 40% less than their neighbours and not just when buyers would like/expect to buy them for 40% less but the sellers just haven't revised their expectations yet.
 
Personally I think even rents relative to salaries in comparison with other European countries are high. Coupled with the fact that a slowdown would result in unemployment, and less immigration and possibly even emigration I can foresee rents falling in real terms in the future.
So while I think that property prices should be 50% of what they currently are to be in line with current rents, I could foresee a fall in property prices above this - maybe 60-65% though obviously this would play out over 12-15 years.
At the same time, considering Irish people's love of property it might only fall to 50%.
 

I seem to merge 2 topics to one to be honest and maybe that why Im seen as negative. I firmly believe that the property market built this country to the insane levels of debt its finds itself in, but I also this the property market will bring the people in this country to their knees and into a dark place for a term of at least 5+ years.

I think we will have huge job losses and it will all stem from the downturn in property. When I discuss this with people, they think Im mad and just think everything will either stay the same or just grow a bit slower.

Im trying to be positive (because my wife is sick of me going on about it), but I just think the country and its people are out of control and we have dark days ahead. This thread is really about how are live's are going to change for the worse over the next few years.
 

This is something that really annoys me with Estate Agents.

This house is acutally in Kilbarrack not Sutton. Kilbarrack, Coolock, Donaghmede and Bayside have all disappeared over the last 5+ years. They've become Raheny and Sutton. Same with areas of Killester, Marino and all of Dollymount becoming Clontarf

Wonder how long they'll continute to get away with this in a falling market. They should be brought to book for false advertising at the very least.
 
This thread is really about how are live's are going to change for the worse over the next few years.
Well its an ill wind in fairness. Some businesses will do well, others will utterly collapse. How would you go about crash-proofing yourself (if this really is the last gasp)?
 
Since i think i called the crash here first i am going to reiterate again my figure of a fall.

40% by xmas. Main Dublin market with the obvious exceptions. (i.e. leafy surburbs)

Not sure by Christmas, but there's definitely room for 40% drops over the next 8/9 months - especially for 'stressed vendors' in 2Pac's (RIP) Back of Ballivor areas. But people who paid up for houses in desirable (to them) locations will likely just take the pain of IR hikes rather than realise losses - also must consider that anyone who bought even 18mths ago can probably take a 30% fall in the 'paper' value of their home.

My barometer is the following:
[broken link removed]=
Went on sale (private treaty) back at the start of July (bad timing) asking €1.65mio. Sat there all summer. Now it's being auctioned on 3rd Oct - AMV €1.65mio. Let's see what happens.......
 
Just to put a little bit more perspective on this discussion.

My aunt lived in Calgary during the 1980s property crash. She was chatting to me recently about the madness in Ireland and shares similar views to me.

We are re-living history here in Ireland. The young people my age have never experienced hard times, let alone mediocre times, and we're all expected to be wearing prada shoes now.

Calgary's economy was heavily dependent on the oil industry: In Ireland, I believe our equivalent oil industry is US FDI, the US economy, and the oil well of money that is German pension funds (borrowed at exceptionally low interest rates).

Anyway, here's the article below. Even the Canadians didn't learn from the hard lessons of the 1980s - greed is a funny thing.

http://www.calgarysun.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi'p=129737&x=articles&s=lifestyle
 


Yep, area creep has been going on for years...

- Coolock has become Artane or Raheny
- Ballymun has become Santry or Glasnevin
- Eastern Swords has become Malahide
- Finglas has become Glasnevin
- Some of Artane has moved into Beaumont

Same on Southside...
- Ballybrack has become Killiney
- parts of Dundrum are becoming Stillorgan
- Sallynoggin moving into Glenageary
- Cornelscourt and Leopardstown edging towards Foxrock!

A better postal code system should sort all that out
 
Not sure how many people would be on for this but as I've seen on the popular UK website [broken link removed], they have organised pub meetings in some area's where posters (bull and bear alike) can meet up and discuss their favourite threads over a few pints.
PS. Could get messy if room305 and tententwenty get their beer fueled hands on each other.
 
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