Charlie Kirk

[Peanuts20]

There's no requirement to respect people's views. There is a requirement to let people express their views.

Voltaire- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" if I have got it correct.

However, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute and you could argue that some of what CK said was borderline hate speech. Personally, looking at the list the Duke posted, I'd agree with 2 of them, partially agree with 2 more and the rest in my view are nonsense, wrong and in at least one case, downright bizarre. But unless it was hate speech or inciting violence, he had a right to say it in the same way I have a right to say some of it was downright bizarre.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Where I come from thats still the case

Well yeah. Come to think of it a quick scan of that list and I would be 100% on this and more than 50% on the rest. I think ChatGPT is a bit of a leftie for when I read the list first it gave me the impression that Kirk was a raging Enoch Burke.

 

[Purple]

Neither is happening though.

I don't know if it's as unprecedented as many people claim. The US, Europe, and particularly Ireland, have a long history of limiting free speech. We had Church and State censorship.

The US had McCarthyism, and Jim Crow Laws effectively limited free speech for black people. Before that slaves obviously didn't enjoy free speech.

 

[Purple]

Well yeah. Come to think of it a quick scan of that list and I would be 100% on this and more than 50% on the rest. I think ChatGPT is a bit of a leftie for when I read the list first it gave me the impression that Kirk was a raging Enoch Burke.

For me the problem isn't that these views are being expressed and debated, it's that they are front and centre, they are defining issues in American political debate.

I frankly don't care about how many genders people think there are. I don't care about trans people using whatever toilet they choose. I certainly don't think that they are issues upon which political lined should be drawn.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I certainly don't think that they are issues upon which political lined should be drawn.

I agree but I do think the "woke" constituency are more to blame for making them issues. There seems to be an agenda to add more and more letters to LGBTQI...
Not die in the ditch stuff for sure.

 

[Purple]

There seems to be an agenda to add more and more letters to LGBTQI...

As long as they don't make me join in they can add as many letters as they want. I consider the LGBT etc cohort/ideology less of a threat to freedom and peace than religion. Very few people who attend a Pride March as inclined to fly airplanes into buildings or cut peoples heads off or blow themselves up.

The backlash from the MAGA camp is deeply hypocritical as they were okay with an attempted Coup, weren't that bothered by the attempted murder of the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the murder and attempted murder of two State legislators in Minnesota. Did Trump order flags flown as half mast for them?

 

[bkenn14]

As I said over on RIP He was more of a preacher Than a Politician,

 

[Marsupial]

Where I come from thats still the case

Would I be correct in assuming that, like me, you come from Planet Earth, rather than Planet Rainbow?

 

[Marsupial]

That means he was aligned to the views of about half of the American population. That's the bit I find frightening.

But is it that 50% or the other 50% that frighten you the most?

 

[Purple]

But is it that 50% or the other 50% that frighten you the most?

The people with God on their side always frighten me more.

 

[Persia]

RTE news : Suspect in custody in murder of Charlie Kirk, Trump says

Suspect in custody in murder of Charlie Kirk, Trump says

A suspect in the fatal shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk at a Utah university has been taken into custody, US President Donald Trump said, ending an intense manhunt that followed what Mr Trump described as a "heinous assassination."

www.rte.ie

 

[RichInSpirit]

The people with God on their side always frighten me more.

Don't worry, God will get you too at some point.

 

[Howth Head]

It's almost like this guy wanted to be caught - the video and stills were quite clear and he would have been instantly recogniseable to people who knew him.

I'm sure the details will emerge very quickly if he's the shooter..

 

[Firefly]

Key Views / Statements

I find many of those views deplorable. Honestly, I struggle to understand why any non-white men and all women associate with MAGA. Do they not engage in some level of deep thinking?

 

[Peanuts20]

I find many of those views deplorable. Honestly, I struggle to understand why any non-white men and all women associate with MAGA. Do they not engage in some level of deep thinking?

One of the key groups in the last election were Hispanics (mostly Catholic) and a lot broke for Trump because they saw him as more conservative on areas such as abortion and trans rights as well as the being more anti the Cuban Govt then the Dems. Same applied for some of the black evangelical Christian churches and groups.

I think a number of them will have got a shock when he really did go after birthright citizens so I wonder how they think now

 

[JoeRoberts]

Do they not engage in some level of deep thinking?

For many people it doesn't take a lot of deep thinking to object to abortion or to be told after 50 years on this planet that they cannot use pronouns like he and she in the proper context as they always did.

 

[Marsupial]

The people with God on their side always frighten me more.

Problem is that there almost as many varieties of "God" out there as there are of Heinz tinned foods.

I never had much time for Ian Paisley's God, but I regarded the God who was worshipped by many of my finest teachers in school as a pretty decent chap, although I didn't really enjoy having to eat fish on Fridays.

 

[Purple]

Universities used to be about debate and ideas, the exchange and argument made people think outside beliefs where they were comfortably ensconced.

He debated and challenged, always pleasant and courteous, his views were at odds with some but that's just the nature of healthy debating.

If he was really a champion of free speech then he would have objected to the way in which the current administration there is using Federal funding to force Universities to adopt a more conservative stance.
I do agree that he was a well mannered and genuine person and he certainly didn’t deserve what happened to him.

Your crass characterisation of him says more about you than you probably realise.

I agree that he was a provocateur but there’s nothing wrong with that. It speaks to your first point. It’s a source of healthy debate.

 

[Purple]

I agree but I do think the "woke" constituency are more to blame for making them issues.

I think they made identity politics a thing again after decades of US society moving away from it. They also made their identity a national political issue. That was a huge mistake because the Christian Right was willing to tolerate them but not be forced to publicly acclaim them and the Christian Right is way more powerful than the loosely based and ill defined liberal left.

 

[Starbuck]

He debated and challenged, always pleasant and courteous, his views were at odds with some but that's just the nature of healthy debating.

Your crass characterisation of him says more about you than you probably realise.

Nope. His callous comments dismissing the Palestinian Genocide were a disgrace and a lie, not to mention provocative and outrageous.
He had no sympathy - why should I have any for him?