Key Post Capital Gains Tax on sale of shares

1stimebuyer

Registered User
Messages
11
I dont believe them to be revenue approved.
The shares didnt come through company payroll (they were transferred directly from the share platform)

It seems i need to fill out form RTS01 on the basis they were short option shares. I know the total profit, which the sheet calls for but I dont know the tax liability.

I assume I'm due to pay income tax on it (all at the higher rate?)
I assume I need to pay USC and PAYE?
Is the allowance (1250) deductable from the taxable sum (or does it apply at all)

What percentages do I work off? Say the profit was €10,000 - Can someone do a mock calculation for me?
 

1stimebuyer

Registered User
Messages
11
Sorry for the follow up dumb question.

So basically is the vesting of shares the same as getting a bonus at the time. Assuming some of my monthly wage goes into the top rate of tax, does that mean I have to pay the top rate of tax on all shares and PRSI and USC - So ~48% tax?
 

Gordon Gekko

Frequent Poster
Messages
4,141
You were awarded unapproved share options with a 5 year term. The exercise price was their market value on the day that they were given to you.

Say they were worth €5 a share back then and now they’re worth €7 a share. Within 30 days of exercise, you complete an RTSO1 form and pay 52% of €2 to Revenue (assuming you’re a top rate tax/USC payer). You also become obliged to submit a tax return for 2018 but it’s purely reporting as you’ve already paid the tax. That’s obviously a moot point if you’re already submitting tax returns.
 

Returning

Registered User
Messages
6
My question also relates to an employee share purchase scheme, revenue-approved. I purchase shares every six months and sell them immediately. The gain is subsequently taxed at 52% + USC + PRSI through my company's payroll so am I eligible for CGT exemption of EUR 1270 and how do I apply for that, I don't normally do an annual return.
 

dub_nerd

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,969
No, you are exercising share options which is why the gain is taxed as income. You are not paying capital gains tax, therefore there is no capital gains exemption.

EDIT: Just noticed you said it was an approved scheme. In that case you can avoid income tax by holding them for a certain amount of time (three years). But since you are selling them immediately you are liable to income tax. (I presume you mean 52% including USC and PRSI).
 
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Returning

Registered User
Messages
6
Hi dub_nerd, yes it is an approved scheme. In January the net gain was taxed through my payroll at a rate of 60% which I took to mean 52% plus USC plus PRSI. Will check back on that.

Revenue confirmed that a CGT exemption does apply but your reply makes more sense, that I am liable for income tax and not eligible for any exemption.
 

Returning

Registered User
Messages
6
On Friday I had a message from Revenue withdrawing their recent advice about CGT as they had made a mistake. So all clear now. Will consider holding on to the shares for 3 years in future in order to avoid the tax.
 

Riverwood

New Member
Messages
1
Hi

I have received shares over the past ten years or so via company share savings scheme. These shares were put straight into a goodbody account.
Last year for the first time I sold 10K worth and so there is possible some CGT due this year. I have however no idea precisely which shares I sold - they could be the first
shares I got or the latest. Should Goodbodys be able to confirm exactly which shares were sold?

Thanks
 

willalex

Frequent Poster
Messages
52
You were awarded unapproved share options with a 5 year term. The exercise price was their market value on the day that they were given to you.

Say they were worth €5 a share back then and now they’re worth €7 a share. Within 30 days of exercise, you complete an RTSO1 form and pay 52% of €2 to Revenue (assuming you’re a top rate tax/USC payer). You also become obliged to submit a tax return for 2018 but it’s purely reporting as you’ve already paid the tax. That’s obviously a moot point if you’re already submitting tax returns.
I get confuse with this, so rather than start a new thread, does anyone know, taking example above, would I have had to pay the €5 per share back then? If I got the shares free of charge, can I still use the €5 base cost?
 

paul00s

New Member
Messages
6
Hi there, i have my capital gains tax allowance for the year to use up. I'm going to realise £1000 of gains in burford capital. I would like to spread bet it, i just want to remove the risk of price change, and remain in the share, not looking to profit during the month i have to sell.

Are there any tax implications to doing this, would revenue turn around and say i didn't really sell?
 

Milo67

Registered User
Messages
3
Can you claim a pro rata refund of cat paid if you invest part ofthe inheritance in agricultural land
 

Deub41

New Member
Messages
4
Hi All,

I sold shares last year (X shares from company Y on 4 June). I paid CGT and now need to fill CG1 form.
Do I just need to fill 1a, 7 and 19a?
The difference between 7 and 19a is removing the sale cost and the 1270 euros personal exemption for 19a.

Is my understanding correct?
I haven't sold any shares before so I don't unused loss.
 

jodonova

New Member
Messages
9
Hi,

I just want to check that I understand how carry forward capital losses works.

In 2014 I made a loss of 700 euros on the sale of some shares.
In 2015 I made a gain of 900 euros on the sale of some shares.

Does this effectively ‘use up’ the loss of 700 made in 2014, and classify the remaining gain of 200 as part of the 1270 personal allowance for 2015 thus bringing my carried forward losses to 0 and my CGT for 2015 to 0.

In 2019 I made a loss of about 15,000 through crypto investment.

Do I need to or should I declare the 15000 losses on my Form 11 for 2019? These losses were incurred through automated trading in cryptocurrency so there are hundreds small trades over a period of a few months with a lot of documentation.

Has anybody any experience with Revenue in calculating CGT for automated trading in cryptocurrencies using trading bots, where there can be hundreds of small trades per year. I am hoping that Revenue will not expect me to calculate the CGT on every single transaction, but rather look at the net difference once everything has been converted back to euros. The sum of all the transactions will equal up to the net difference and I’m hoping that will be sufficient for Revenue once I send details of all the trades. I'm hoping I can just declare the loss in my Form11 and they will not query it, and if I do, they will not want to go through each and every tiny trade but just look at the net losses after conversion back to euros.
 
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rob oyle

Frequent Poster
Messages
625
Hi,

I just want to check that I understand how carry forward capital losses works.

In 2014 I made a loss of 700 euros on the sale of some shares.
In 2015 I made a gain of 900 euros on the sale of some shares.

Does this effectively ‘use up’ the loss of 700 made in 2014, and classify the remaining gain of 200 as part of the 1270 personal allowance for 2015 thus bringing my carried forward losses to 0 and my CGT for 2015 to 0.
Yes, you pay no CGT in 2015 and you carry no loss in 2016.

In 2019 I made a loss of about 15,000 through crypto investment.

Do I need to or should I declare the 15000 losses on my Form 11 for 2019? These losses were incurred through automated trading in cryptocurrency so there are hundreds small trades over a period of a few months with a lot of documentation.

Has anybody any experience with Revenue in calculating CGT for automated trading in cryptocurrencies using trading bots, where there can be hundreds of small trades per year. I am hoping that Revenue will not expect me to calculate the CGT on every single transaction, but rather look at the net difference once everything has been converted back to euros. The sum of all the transactions will equal up to the net difference and I’m hoping that will be sufficient for Revenue once I send details of all the trades. I'm hoping I can just declare the loss in my Form11 and they will not query it, and if I do, they will not want to go through each and every tiny trade but just look at the net losses after conversion back to euros.
Just to check - if this is/was a trading operation to generate an income rather than a capital investment (given the number of trades) this may be viewed as income tax chargeable?
 

jpd

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,900
No, funds in a Pension AVC are not taxable until you start taking a pension. They are then taxed as income.

No CGT involved in pension funds of any kind
 

Slim

Frequent Poster
Messages
2,288
No, funds in a Pension AVC are not taxable until you start taking a pension. They are then taxed as income.

No CGT involved in pension funds of any kind
Thanks, I feared as much.
 
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