Bank of Ireland BoI Staff on fixed rates who are not getting their trackers back

K

Keefor

Registered User
Messages
5
Hi All I am only seeing these threads now. Thanks for all your posts!

In summary my situation is as follows:

* BOI staff member for 7 years until Dec 2012. I haven't yet contacted the CB or FSO.

*Originally on a variable in 2006 for 2 mortgages. Originally thought I was signing up to a tracker but after been sent the trackers mortgage docs, I was also sent variable mortgage docs by BOI too. BOI told me to sign the variable mortgage docs and when I queried why not the tracker mortgage docs they said just sign the Var docs now as you can move to a tracker in the future. They also mentioned that all BOI staff have an option to move to trackers so I didn't think to argue too much at the time.

*Moved to fixed in Jan 07. Before moving I queried with BOI on the phone if I could move to tracker after the fixed period and I was told yes. I asked this question a number of times over the process of changing to fixed and I was told by BOI constantly that I could move to tracker at the end of the fixed period. I again wasn't too worried because that was what all staff members were constantly been told by BOI mortgages. All staff I knew thought they were entitled to tracker mortgages.

* The insite article in October 08 (refer post 88) stated staff on the 3.95% fixed rate will move to 0.75% ECB tracker rate - this also assured me that I would move to a tracker.

*BOI internal systems up to quarter 4 of 2008 has all staff 2 year mortgages moving to a tracker rate - this also provided me with assurance of my ability to move to a tracker.

*My fixed mortgage docs has wording such as "if the loan is moving to a tracker....." - Again I thought this implied I have a right to move to a tracker at the end of the fixed period.

*BOI press release in Feb 06 (refer post 22/23) - this also states new fixed mortgages would move to a tracker.

I intend to follow up on this in all ways I can, I will also email boistafftracker (above in post #76) and keep everyone informed of any updates. Thanks
 
A

Ahv2c9

New Member
Messages
2
I have been steered to this forum by an ex-colleague and am too affected by the staff 2 year fixed rate - with no redress.
I wrote to Bank of Ireland in 2013 questioning why I was not rolled onto the tracker rate, but was fobbed off -citing my original mortgage which was variable and ignoring the clause in the 20 November letter advising that "those who opened their mortgage account on a fixed rate, or took the option of further fixed rates at previous roll-over times, will have a tracker option on their roll-over..."
Believing I fell into the latter, I argued my case but to no avail at that point in time.

I wrote to Bank of Ireland in August 2017 and my case was included in the scope of the tracker mortgage examination team. I received correspondence from them through 2017 all advising the examination was "ongoing".
I also took advise from two solicitors, one of whom wrote to the Bank arguing discrimination in February 2018. This letter seemed to bring some attention to my case, and I received a response from Group Customer Complaints in May 2018 advising that my mortgage was "not currently identified as impacted by the Central Bank tracker review process" (although the tracker examination team never actually communicated this in writing). This letter also contradicted the category 1 of the November 2008 letter (those who opened on a fixed or moved to a fixed will have tracker) by further qualifying this statement "in order to fall into category 1, you would have had to have a tracker option on your signed Mortgage Loan Offer letter" and attached was a copy of my initial mortgage from August 2006 which was variable; and then staff fixed from January 2007.
My understanding when the Staff fixed rate letter issued was that I would have the option of moving to a tracker on roll-over - and was assured of this on making enquiries by phone (unfortunately hard to prove) - and by the roll-over date, I was simply caught by the fact that the tracker had been "withdrawn". . .

I am an ex-employee and have not directly contacted the FSO; but am keen to be included in any information any of the parties to this discussion can share on progress or action.
 
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Ahv2c9

New Member
Messages
2
Hi TMH2017
I have just added to the thread with my summary. New to the discussions.
I had the two year staff fixed, and none redress
I have not gone to the FSO
I am en ex-employee.

I will email the boistafftracker gmail account separately as I'd like to stay in the loop on this.
 
T

TMH2017

Frequent Poster
Messages
61
All,
We are in the process of putting a group together on this issue and have had an initial call on this. The current group contains a number of current and ex-employees but we are keen to increase numbers as much as possible - our understanding is that there are up to 210 people within this cohort which the BOI are continuing to deny redress on. If you wish to be part of this group, please email the following address boistafftracker@gmail.com before the 10th of December.
We will have a further call shortly after this date to decide on the best way forward - please note for current employees that we will not disclose individual names at this stage and this will only be done with the agreement of each individual should we take that course of action in negotiations with BOI. Thanks
 
T

TMH2017

Frequent Poster
Messages
61
All, as an update we have made good progress in setting up a group to take this issue forward, have had a number of productive calls and have a number of different work streams underway in order to move this issue on. Our strength is in our numbers so if there are any other current/ex BOI staff in the same predicament (never on tracker, sold 2 yr staff fixed rate product on basis of roll to tracker and deemed not impacted by BOI) please email the following address to be included going forward : boistafftracker@gmail.com. Thanks
 
T

TMH2017

Frequent Poster
Messages
61
All, as an update we have made further significant progress on this case over the last month with meetings held with a no. of politicians including members of the Finance Committee, a formal submission made to the Central Bank and and engagement with the media - on that point we understand there will be material coverage on our case in the media early next week.
Our ability to generate momentum in this case has been solely down to our strength in numbers and sharing of information which has enabled us to build a very strong argument. As such, the more members we have in our group out of the c. 200 original staff, the better chance we have of achieving our ultimate goal which is receiving the correct redress. If you wish to join please email boistafftracker@gmail.com and I will add you to the distribution list and for regular call updates - please note if you are a current staff member we will not share any information with any third party without your express consent.
 
Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
37,956
TMH2017 said:
boistafftracker@gmail.com
Click to expand...
Hi TMH

I did not know that there was such a group. When a thread gets to 6 pages, most of which is repetitive, the key stuff can get lost.

Do you want to start a new thread with a summary of the issues and what people can and should do?

Keep it as factual as possible in the first post -This is our argument - this is their response.

Or do their response in the second post.

Brendan
 
T

TMH2017

Frequent Poster
Messages
61
Thanks Brendan - See below recap of facts of our case - We have met with the Central Bank and representatives for BOI over recent weeks and our case was extensively discussed when BOI were at the Finance Committee a few weeks back - if there are any more people out there in the same situation please contact us at boistafftracker@gmail.com

Ø Prior to entering into the 2-year Fixed Rate mortgage contract (late 06/ early 07) Bank of Ireland staff were consistently and clearly told by Bank of Ireland and ICS mortgages staff that, “if you switched to the 2-year Fixed Rate mortgage, you would have the option to roll to a staff tracker at the end of the fixed rate period”. There was never any mention at this stage that a condition of this offer was that you had to be on a tracker product previously.

Ø It was common Bank of Ireland policy in 2006 that all fixed rate products had the option of rolling to a tracker. Bank of Ireland staff were not excluded from this policy. This was confirmed in press releases and mortgage rate sheets released in 2006 prior to the launch of the product which we all relied on.

Ø Furthermore, the Bank of Ireland internal system (Mortgage link) had all staff on 3.95% fixed rate moving to ECB + 0.75% which assured us that this was the nature of our mortgage rate (i.e. 2-year fixed with automatic roll to Staff tracker). This information was freely available to all staff and was only unilaterally changed by Bank of Ireland (by a Product Switch) on the internal system on 11th November 2008, less than 2 months prior to the end of the fixed rate period.

Ø From the beginning of the fixed rate period up until October 2008, all staff were constantly reassured by BOI branch and mortgage staff that this product would be rolling to the staff tracker + 0.75% hence no-one within this product switched out of the product given these assurances (which would be unusual given regular level of switching between different products).

Ø On the 09/10/08, all 2000 staff on the fixed rate product received a communication from BOI confirming that “Staff who are currently on Staff 2-year fixed – currently 3.95% - will roll to ECB +0.75% …. at the end of their 2-year fixed period. …. If you do not respond to this notification (which we did not) your account will automatically default to the Staff Tracker ECB+0.75%”. There was no clarification at that point that your previous rate history and presence of a tracker product would determine what rate you would ultimately roll to (10 years later).

Ø Following the notification on the 09/10/08, a large number of staff on the fixed rate product sought confirmation from the Bank that they would continue to honour the option to roll to Tracker. A number of our cohort were given confirmation by email and via phone calls that we all had the option of the roll to tracker and that we would continue to have this right on 10 October 2008 and up to expiry of the fixed rate product.

Ø In November 2008, less than 2 months before the end of a 24-month contract, Bank of Ireland changed the parameters of the contract removing the roll to tracker provision and amending the internal mortgage system while acknowledging within internal documentation that they had “in error” previously confirmed that they had confirmed to staff that they would roll to the staff tracker product.

Bank of Ireland have provided redress to c. 1800 of the 2000 staff (& Ex-staff) who originated on the 2-year Fixed rate product using the argument that this group were on a tracker product at some stage in the past (not necessarily right before the 2-year Fixed Rate) while our cohort was not and that "they can't treat staff differently than regular customers".

Bank of Ireland did not communicate to our group at any time prior to launching the 2 year fixed rate product that on the basis of our rate history that we would not be entitled to roll to a tracker product. If we were told on day 1 (or up to October 2008 - towards the end of the fixed rate period) that our product was fundamentally different to the other product we, as a group, would have had an opportunity to make an informed decision as to whether to break out of our fixed rate products and switch to a tracker product. As we were not told this and as we were constantly told from day 1 that the product would roll to a tracker, we trusted that our employer & banking provider would honour its commitment which we have found out to our immense cost was a false promise. Bank of Ireland have admitted in internal documentation in 2008 that they "incorrectly" advised staff that they would roll to a tracker and in its redress letters to staff admit that their communication regarding what would happen at the end of the fixed rate period was "confusing and / or misleading" yet they continue to refuse us redress despite all communication materials / documentation being the same for all cohorts within the 2-year Fixed Rate mortgage.
 
T

TMH2017

Frequent Poster
Messages
61
Hi , just an update to inform we as a group are still fighting this and are coming up with a range of options to try and get redress for our group. We have a large number of affected staff and ex-Staff but if there are any others out there and are keen to join our group please email to : boistafftracker@gmail.com. We are also on twitter @trackerstaff and on Facebook @ Bank of Ireland Staff Tracker.

Separately, as part of our investigations we became aware of a general notice released to all Mortgage staff in Feb 2006 which underpins our argument that we were all told that our fixed rate product would roll to a tracker product.

"It is important to note that all new products (discount tracker and fixed) will now roll to ECB + 1.25%. This eliminates the current scenario whereby all fixed rates roll to the standard variable rate"

This change in policy would have been a few months prior to the inception of our 2 year fixed rate product later in 2006.

Would be interested to see if others have used this document in discussions with FSO or have similar documents had success at other banks ?
 
Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
37,956
Hi TMH
As your post and contact details might be lost in the middle of a long thread, I suggest that you also start a new thread and I will make it a key post.

Threads tend to go off topic very quickly so make it clear what the criteria are for your group e.g.
ex BoI staff
Had a tracker
Have been refused redress

Excludes
Non boi staff who have some other issue
etc

Brendan
 
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