BOI app down ?

[E30chick]

Yes Bank of Ireland customers could withdraw their money at ATMs yesterday but they couldn't check their balance.

So if you can't check your balance, you can't verify how much available cash you have

Therefore if you take more than what you have, is it really fraud as you couldn't check your available funds?

Not everybody checks their bank account daily and is aware of what is it in at any given time.

 

[Sunny]

I think the confusion might be that people were able withdraw 500 from ATM as per daily limit but were able to transfer lot more to revolut and withdraw thar way...

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Therefore if you take more than what you have, is it really fraud as you couldn't check your available funds?

If you withdrew €200 with your Bank of Ireland card and that was your normal transaction, that was carelessness, but not fraud. It might still impact your credit record if you don't fix it promptly.

If you sucked €1,000 into Revolut account and then went to an ATM and withdrew it, that is fraud.

Brendan

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Credit cards operate on a different system, so people with Bank of Ireland credit cards could definitely withdraw money.

Not sure if people with BoI debit cards could.

But most of the fraud was perpetrated by Revolut customers. I am not blaming Revolut by the way.


Brendan

 

[Brendan Burgess]

If I were Revolut I would run a check this morning on all the customers who sucked €1,000 from BoI on 15th August 2023 and then withdrew it from an ATM. I would terminate their accounts immediately as risky.

Brendan

 

[Sunny]

Credit cards operate on a different system, so people with Bank of Ireland credit cards could definitely withdraw money.

Not sure if people with BoI debit cards could.

But most of the fraud was perpetrated by Revolut customers. I am not blaming Revolut by the way.


Brendan

No debit cards worked. The issue was balances not being checked and therefore people allowed to withdraw what they want.

I don't really see the fraud. Argument to be made that it is theft but I don't see how anyone defrauded BOI.....

 

[E30chick]

If you sucked €1,000 into Revolut account and then went to an ATM and withdrew it, that is fraud.

Brendan

Agreed, well I didn't do that.
I have more sense!

 

[Sunny]

Agreed, well I didn't do that.
I have more sense!

Not sure about that. You knew you had €140 in your account and you transferred €1000....Doesn't matter if you intend to return it today. Technically what you did is no different to helping yourself to some cash out of till in a shop because it was open and unattended and they owed you some change.....

a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it.

Not sure why you wanted to see if it worked.... Bit mad to be honest...

 

[E30chick]

Not sure about that. You knew you had €140 in your account and you transferred €1000....Doesn't matter if you intend to return it today. Technically what you did is no different to helping yourself to some cash out of till in a shop because it was open and unattended and they owed you some change.....

a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it.

Not sure why you wanted to see if it worked.... Bit mad to be honest...

I did it because I didn't believe that there could be such a massive fault with a bank.
But hey turns out there can be.

As I said, nobody has died, the money is on it's way back.
I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

[Sunny]

I did it because I didn't believe that there could be such a massive fault with a bank.
But hey turns out there can be.

As I said, nobody has died, the money is on it's way back.
I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

You're an adult.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I don't really see the fraud. Argument to be made that it is theft but I don't see how anyone defrauded BOI.....

I am not sure that there is a material difference between fraud and theft at least from a moral point of view.

Brendan

 

[E30chick]

You're an adult.

Are you sure, my parents and siblings would argue that one lol.

I have now checked my BOI account. Funds have been received and my account is now in credit (inflated credit €1,200)
If I am charged for an OD then so be it, at least I have absolute clarity in what happens in a situation like this.

 

[Sunny]

Are you sure, my parents and siblings would argue that one lol.

I have now checked my BOI account. Funds have been received and my account is now in credit (inflated credit €1,200)
If I am charged for an OD then so be it, at least I have absolute clarity in what happens in a situation like this.

As far as I know you won't be charged an OD. Balances didn't update when you took out the money so it won't be reflected. It will just show the minus 1000 today when in credit and since you returned the money, no issue.

Rumours going around that updating the balances is not straight forward.. Be interesting to see how quickly they debit the 1000 from your account.

 

[lff12]

They are doing a transfer from their BoI accounts to Revolut.

They are then withdrawing the money from their Revolut cards via ATM.

BoI would have to block BoI to Revolut transfers.

That's probably not something you can do without blocking all outbound transactions

 

[lff12]

It was a message going around on WhatsApp last night.

I had €140 in my back account after paying all my bills out from my wages yesterday . I have a €100 overdraft on my BOI account.

Last night Revolut let me withdraw €1,200 from my BOI account.

This morning my BOI balance is €140 and I have €1,200 in my Revolut account, which will naturally of course be returned as its not money for me to spend.

I can't screenshot the BOI account but I'll supply evidence if needed to verify my post.

It usually takes a couple of days for transactions to clear. Unfortunately it will eventually show up in your account as an outbound transaction. Hope you have an overdraft because BOI in my own experience completely screw you on unauthorised ODs.

 

[lff12]

Fair enough, but how much is the fee you incur for an unauthorised overdraft?

All of that here - 13.25% on the full amount for interest. It would look like they no longer have referral charges or unauthorised lending fees. Which is lucky, because when I ran into difficulty & they froze my account, making all my overdraft instantly unauthorised, the fees and penalty interest was enormous. I think it started off at 75 euro a month on 1700 and went down from there as I gradually cleared it off.

 

[lff12]

So if you can't check your balance, you can't verify how much available cash you have

Therefore if you take more than what you have, is it really fraud as you couldn't check your available funds?

Not everybody checks their bank account daily and is aware of what is it in at any given time.

I don't think its technically fraud if you really were not sure how you have, but if you knew the money wasn't there, well its tantamount to fraud, except that all its really doing is creating an unauthorised overdraft that basically is going to stay as a minus on your account until you lodge the equivalent back, plus interest of course.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I work in finance I know it will be updated.

Are you sure, my parents and siblings would argue that one lol.

I have now checked my BOI account. Funds have been received and my account is now in credit (inflated credit €1,200)
If I am charged for an OD then so be it, at least I have absolute clarity in what happens in a situation like this.

I hope you are not too senior in finance and subject to Fitness and Probity approval as I doubt that the Central Bank's would look favourably on your testing of the systems.

Brendan

 

[Luternau]

So the CB comes down on the customers and let's BOI off with the glitch excuse (again)?
I dont see anyone being persued for fraud on this. You would hope staff in BOI are adults too.

 

[lff12]

No debit cards worked. The issue was balances not being checked and therefore people allowed to withdraw what they want.

I don't really see the fraud. Argument to be made that it is theft but I don't see how anyone defrauded BOI.....

It depends on the intent. But since its technically just using an unauthorised overdraft, all it does is create a minus balance on the customers account, which means until they bring their account back into the black, its unusuable.
If its just a secondary account, its going to be a question of paying it back plus interest. If you decide not to, its probably going on your credit record as unpaid debt, sooner or later. Now customer might argue that they didn't sign up to a credit agreement and therefore bank cannot list this on the credit report, but if you knowingly withdrew exactly 1k on a night it was being well documented on social media, you might have a hard time winning that point.

I think people might need to be educated as to exactly what happens in these circumstances. I ran into difficulties 22 years ago as a foolhardy young person. It might seem a lark, but in my circumstances I ended up living on around 75 euro a week after my rent & debts were paid, bang in the middle of the celtic tiger. They would be wise to undo what they did last night before it snowballs, because as in my experience, if you don't have the means to pay back what actually might not be a very large amount, it simply hangs around plus interest, until you do.