Bitcoin discussion on Askaboutmoney.

F

Fella

Registered User
Messages
524
Is this really wise to discuss Bitcoin as an alternative investment , a lot of people come on here for financial advice and my fear is they are going to see Bitcoin as a genuine investment strategy.
The words Bitcoin and investment don’t belong in the same sentence imo, it is a pure gamble with no strategy everyone is clueless to how this coin is valued and it’s going to end in tears unfortunately for some people . I hope people reading this forum understand that Bitcoin is not an alternative investment it’s a pure gamble.
 
We don't talk individual stocks, don't talk house prices, so on that basis the fact we talk about bitcoin is a surprise.
 
Hi Fella

A very good question.

When a separate forum was suggested for Bitcoin I rejected it out of hand on the grounds that it would be conferring a "respectability" on Bitcoin which it does not deserve. I do not like associating the words "Bitcoin" and "investment" as it's not an investment.

However after discussion with the mods and some other Frequent Posters we thought, that on balance, it was right to have a forum for "alternative investments".

People thinking of buying Bitcoin may well check out askaboutmoney to see what people are saying. If we ban it, they will find only the sites of the Bitcon faithful and might not get the counter-view.

That is why I kicked off the forum with this thread:

Bitcoin is a clearly identifiable economic bubble

and later, this one:

Bitcoin is not like gold

I was pleased to see that most of the posters agree with the bubble argument.

But we will keep it under review.

Brendan

 
Brendan Burgess said:
....People thinking of buying Bitcoin may well check out askaboutmoney to see what people are saying. If we ban it, they will find only the sites of the Bitcon faithful and might not get the counter-view. ....
Click to expand...


Hello,

That for me, was probably the most important reason to have Bitcoin and the other cryptos discussed here... and I was one of the people who asked Mr. Burgess to consider the new forum.

AskAboutMoney.com has proven to be a well run, trusted source of reliable financial information over the years. It does not have conflicts of interest when it comes to the likes of Bitcoin, so I would far rather come here to get honest answers then risk going elsewhere.


.
 
When investing in most things you can see what you are investing in , there is a value , people point to gold as a comparison but gold is a real tangible thing , if people stop believing in gold its price might fall but its still gold.
Bitcoin is a belief you are investing in something that requires others to believe in it also , if everyone stops believing in Bitcoin it will crash , the problem is if the price starts to crash there is nothing stopping Bitcoin dropping 90% in a day because there is no value holding the price up its just a belief system if people believe its worth 1$ thats the price it will be if they believe its worth 50,000$ thats the price it will be, you are gambling on what you think people will believe its price will be , expect huge swings in a market based on belief . It's close to a ponzi scheme for me. I don't believe it has any place in a serious investors portfolio , I also think guides on how to buy and hold Bitcoins on askaboutmoney are akin to having guides on how to open a Betfair account and gamble.
If you must have a sub-forum on Bitcoin I think there should be a massive warning before each thread that Bitcoin is not an investment and you are very likely to lose 100% of your money.
 
Fella said:
If you must have a sub-forum on Bitcoin I think there should be a massive warning before each thread that Bitcoin is not an investment and you are very likely to lose 100% of your money.
Click to expand...

Hi Fella

Another interesting idea.

So the mods should edit the first post in each thread and insert the following

Warning: Bitcoin is not an investment. You are very likely to lose all your money. For more information see
Bitcoin is a clearly identifiable economic bubble

Something like that?
 
That sums it up nicely , if people want to still "invest" well they have been warned. Askaboutmoney is a very well respected forum , people may wrongly see Bitcoin as an alternative investment been endorsed just by its presence on the forum .
 
I love watching "shoe shine" moments happening in real time.

RTE ran a piece on their website this morning - "Do you know what Bitcoin is?".

What happened next?

Bitcoin plunged 20% in value.:eek: (I don't think that had anything to do with RTE but you see my point..)

I think Fella makes a good point but I would hate to see any form of censorship of differing views on here.

Surely that's the great advantage of this forum? People can solicit a range of opinions and then make up their own minds.

I might well think that crypto currencies are total nonsense but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

Well, kinda;)
 
Of course we should discuss Bitcoin as an investment, if for no other reason that it is an interesting discussion.

ant dee said:
We don't talk individual stocks, don't talk house prices, so on that basis the fact we talk about bitcoin is a surprise.
Click to expand...

We don't speculate on the future movements of house prices, we frequently discuss property as an investment.
 
In fairness, I don't think there's really any speculation about that particular point ant dee :)

bubbles occur, in property, in bitcoin etc. the speculators just have to conced that they are gambling that the bubble won't burst while they have exposure to the particular market.

And just for the record, I'm far from anti-bitcoin, or anti-speculation, I just think it's vital that everyone goes into these markets with their eyes wide open :)
 
On reflection, I think that the decision to discuss it was correct.

It has not required too much moderation. The main problem for the moderators has been that people discuss every topic in every thread, rather than in specific threads.

But it will be a really valuable historical record of the live discussion during a bubble. It would be great to have had discussion forums during Tulipmania.

It's astonishing that clever, rational people could be holding onto something worthless when they could sell them for $15,000. They will read back on this forum and wonder what were they thinking.

Brendan
 
Moved from the thread on shorting Bitcoin

Brendan,

Do you really want to explain to people the mechanics of extreme gambling?

I believe that this is not appropriate. There is a risk that some people could get burned and burned badly.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dan Murray said:
Do you really want to explain to people the mechanics of extreme gambling?
Click to expand...

Eh. This whole forum is about extreme gambling. Paying $15,000 for something which is worth nothing in the hope that a Greater Fool will pay more for it before it crashes to zero.

I want to find out how to exploit the Tulipmania while limiting the risk. I think that a put option is the way to do it.

Brendan
 
My belief is that BTC will not be the same price in 6 or 12 months time so I agree that if you want to bet on its trajectory, there is a lot of money to be won (and lost!).

I just don't think it's appropriate to explain the mechanics of these things as there is a risk that some people will take on these bets without sufficient knowledge or experience and get burned badly.

BTC is really, really high risk - all bubbles (if that's what it is) are similar but different. It is so full of risks - those we know, we know; those we know, we don't know and of course, those we don't know, we don't know.

Obviously, it's your decision but I am just urging caution here.
 
This is one of the reasons I don’t think Bitcoin should be discussed on this forum , this forum has become askaboutbitcoin
.
There seems to be rules in place that prohibit people discussing individual shares or house prices but Bitcoin is a free for all.

As a former advantage/professional gambler I would urge serious caution in shorting Bitcoin , I don’t believe in Bitcoin but I’m staying well away, this is not advantage gambling it’s erratic and the chances of going bust are extemely high. I don’t think this forum is going in the right direction as a well established money advice forum , shorting Bitcoin guides are irresponsible at best.
 
Fella said:
There seems to be rules in place that prohibit people discussing individual shares or house prices but Bitcoin is a free for all.

As a former advantage/professional gambler I would urge serious caution in shorting Bitcoin , I don’t believe in Bitcoin but I’m staying well away, this is not advantage gambling it’s erratic and the chances of going bust are extemely high. I don’t think this forum is going in the right direction as a well established money advice forum , shorting Bitcoin guides are irresponsible at best.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more with all of the above, Fella. Well said.
 
Dan Murray said:
My belief is that BTC will not be the same price in 6 or 12 months time so I agree that if you want to bet on its trajectory, there is a lot of money to be won (and lost!).

I just don't think it's appropriate to explain the mechanics of these things as there is a risk that some people will take on these bets without sufficient knowledge or experience and get burned badly.

BTC is really, really high risk - all bubbles (if that's what it is) are similar but different. It is so full of risks - those we know, we know; those we know, we don't know and of course, those we don't know, we don't know.

Obviously, it's your decision but I am just urging caution here.
Click to expand...

People are already gambling as they continue to buy Bitcoins - so nothing wrong with selling Bitcoins. It is a huge risk and some people will get burned in any case. So either all Bitcoin discussions should be removed or selling Bitcoins remains to be a valid discussion point.
If I would know where the top is I would short as well the hell out of it. Though that Bitcoin reaches 150k or something ridiculous is equally possible as there is no limit to peoples hysteria before it crashes.
 
Trying to prohibit information on the internet is pointless, people are hearing about bitcoin from all over the place at the moment, it's in the media, and anyone can simply google "buy bitcoin", "short bitcoin" or "trade bitcoin" and dive in without knowing what they're doing. IMHO Education is better than prohibition, especially unenforceable prohibition.

The best thing you could do imho is have a big sticky at the top of this forum warning of the risky nature of bitcoin, and that it's very easy to lose ALL of your stake if you trade it, and especially easy on leverage.
 
The discussion on Bitcoin has been very informative.

It will be extremely useful the next time there is a bubble in something else. We will be able to refer back to this forum and say "Look at how people abandon all reason when there is a bubble.".

It's very clear from the discussions on shorting Bitcoin that they are very risky.

If someone googles "shorting Bitcoin" and finds some other site, they may not get the warnings. If they come across Askaboutmoney, they will at least see the risks and warnings.

I understand the risks of shorting fully. I would like a put option if that is possible and that means I can buy a put option for €10,000 or however much I am prepared to lose and limit my risk to that. So it's worth discussing as someone may be able to tell me how to do it.



Brendan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top