Alcohol consumption in Ireland - are we finally ready to admit we have a problem?

[Ceist Beag]

The quotation from the report is about alcohol consumption in Ireland, Ireland is named in it. It's not about Scotland or alcohol sales. The difficulty is with the incorrect link I supplied, which is corrected below.

How is a prediction for 2025 in the bin by 2020? 2025 hasn't arrived yet, check your calendar!

Isn't the point that the 2020 prediction (of 13.5L) way off so that undermines any further predictions for 2025? As always with things like this there are contradicting reports each stating certain things as truth but it does appear that the facts are that consumption in this country is on the decrease for the past 20 years based on links that posters have provided in this thread. That's not to say we're in a good place here or that we can't do more to improve the rate of decrease.

 

[Leo]

It seems strange to have a topic about alcohol consumption problems and not to be allowed by the forum rules to discuss the medical aspects of an enormous problem. Them's the rules though.

Veering into medical advice territory runs the risk of Brendan getting sued.

 

[mathepac]

I understand that Leo and it was not my intention to offer medical advice but to clear up the chicken and egg situation with a variety of mental health conditions. The discussion becomes a hollow one, hamstrung by the exclusion of a critical aspect of the consequences of excess alcohol consumption. As I've already said, the inclusion of per capita and averaged figures and discussions of sales vs consumption blur the seriousness of the problem. Experts tell us that between 20% & 30% of our adult population, those 15 years old and over, never drink. Exclude these from the averaged numbers and you have a drinking problem of monumental proportions for the remaining adult drinkers.

Between 1970 and 2019 Ireland's population grew from 2.9M to 4.9M and I'd like to know for the years in question how many citizens fell below the 15 years old threshold for inclusion in various per capita claculations before excluding the non-drinkers.

How much do we drink TEST? - Alcohol Action Ireland

[wpfilebase tag=list id=28 tpl=’aai_document_list’ sort=’>file_date’ num=10 /]

alcoholireland.ie

"Here are some of the main research findings regarding alcohol consumption in Ireland:

• Per capita alcohol consumption in Ireland was 10.78 litres of pure alcohol per person aged 15+ in 2019.
• The Health Research Board (HRB) has pointed out that our per capita alcohol consumption in 2015 (11 lts per capita) is equal to 41 litres of gin/vodka, 116 bottles of wine or 445 pints of beer per person aged 15+.
• When we consider the fact that at least one in five adults in Ireland don’t drink alcohol, it means that those who do drink are consuming significantly more than the per capita consumption figure shows.
• The HRB found that if you exclude the one fifth (20.6%) of the adult population who abstain from alcohol completely, the 2015 figures can be adjusted upwards to 46 bottles of gin/vodka, 130 bottles of wine, or 498 pints of beer.
• Alcohol consumption in Ireland almost trebled over four decades between 1960 (4.9 litres) and 2001 (14.3 litres)."

 

[Leo]

I understand that Leo and it was not my intention to offer medical advice but to clear up the chicken and egg situation with a variety of mental health conditions. The discussion becomes a hollow one, hamstrung by the exclusion of a critical aspect of the consequences of excess alcohol consumption.

I don't think there's any doubt that is so. I don't believe the ban on medical discussion in any way take from that.

 

[joe sod]

A fascinating piece of information I just learned on alcoholism, apparently blue eyed people have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, they are 83% more likely to become alcoholics than brown eyed people. When you think about it this explains quite alot, the celtic people of Ireland and UK along with the Nordics of scandinavia are famously heavy drinkers and have large populations of blue eyed people. Whereas the countries of Spain , Italy and portugal who we envy for being able to drink a glass of wine and not overdo it are also predominately brown eyed.
Therefore the hope that mediteranean culture will cure our heavy drinking is false if we are genetically predisposed to alcoholism anyway (if blue eyed)

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

It's worth looking at Figure 19 of this HRB report

There are literally a quarter of the number of 13 year olds drinking now than in the 1990s, for 15 year olds it's about a half.

Figure 22 shows that drunkenness is happening later, and less.

The kids just aren't drinking as much any more, and this will move like a wave through the adult population over time.

 

[odyssey06]

A fascinating piece of information I just learned on alcoholism, apparently blue eyed people have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, they are 83% more likely to become alcoholics than brown eyed people. When you think about it this explains quite alot, the celtic people of Ireland and UK along with the Nordics of scandinavia are famously heavy drinkers and have large populations of blue eyed people. Whereas the countries of Spain , Italy and portugal who we envy for being able to drink a glass of wine and not overdo it are also predominately brown eyed.
Therefore the hope that mediteranean culture will cure our heavy drinking is false if we are genetically predisposed to alcoholism anyway (if blue eyed)

What % of the population are we talking about though in terms of a delta?
What % of the population overall are alcoholics?
If we have a higher % of 'super drinkers' that might account for bump in consumption but not a significant amount?

And if it "takes just one drink" for someone's alcoholism to emerge, then will anything except treatment \ AA type resources cure that kind of heavy drinking?

 

[Purple]

A fascinating piece of information I just learned on alcoholism, apparently blue eyed people have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, they are 83% more likely to become alcoholics than brown eyed people. When you think about it this explains quite alot, the celtic people of Ireland and UK along with the Nordics of scandinavia are famously heavy drinkers and have large populations of blue eyed people. Whereas the countries of Spain , Italy and portugal who we envy for being able to drink a glass of wine and not overdo it are also predominately brown eyed.
Therefore the hope that mediteranean culture will cure our heavy drinking is false if we are genetically predisposed to alcoholism anyway (if blue eyed)

Have you a link to that Joe?

 

[Purple]

It's worth looking at Figure 19 of this HRB report

There are literally a quarter of the number of 13 year olds drinking now than in the 1990s, for 15 year olds it's about a half.

Figure 22 shows that drunkenness is happening later, and less.

The kids just aren't drinking as much any more, and this will move like a wave through the adult population over time.

The report says that there's been little change in consumption for 17 year olds and over so it juts means that 13-15 year olds aren't drinking as much but they are just as likely to start drinking by the time they are 17.

 

[joe sod]

Have you a link to that Joe?

Just Google blue eyed people and alcoholism and a lot of articles and research comes up. I just came across it is a " by the way" information when was looking at something else. But I was really surprised that had never heard this before even though there are endless discussions on alcoholism in the media. It makes sense though when we Irish are infamous alcoholics along with the Scandinavians. Maybe the bigger northern countries like UK and Germany the genetic factor is not so big because of immigration

 

[Leper]

Alcohol consumption in Ireland - are we finally ready to admit we have a problem?​

Not only are we refusing to admit Ireland has a problem we are refusing most obvious solutions to it.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

they are just as likely to start drinking by the time they are 17.

No it shows a reduction of "ever-drunkenness" of about 10% in 17-year olds since 2002.

It's not massive but it's a material decline and the media and public health industry will never highlight it.

Figure 1 also shows about a 20% decline in consumption by adults since 2002 on a per capita basis.

 

[Peanuts20]

Could I be cynical and suggest one of the reasons for the downturn in alcohol consumption is the upturn in drug consumption?. Kids in some areas are no longer interested in a bottle of buckfast down the bike-shed, far more likely to be using crack. The rise in the number of drug drivers is scary

 

[Purple]

Could I be cynical and suggest one of the reasons for the downturn in alcohol consumption is the upturn in drug consumption?. Kids in some areas are no longer interested in a bottle of buckfast down the bike-shed, far more likely to be using crack. The rise in the number of drug drivers is scary

Drug use and alcohol use do hand in hand, particularly cocaine and Benzodiazepine.

 

[mathepac]

Figure 1 also shows about a 20% decline in consumption by adults since 2002 on a per capita basis.

With such a high percentage of adult abstainers in this country, per capita calculations successfully and deliberately hide the truth about the extent of the problem we in Ireland have with alcohol.

The HRB found that if you exclude the one fifth (20.6%) of the adult population who abstain from alcohol completely, the 2015 figures can be adjusted upwards to 46 bottles of gin/vodka, 130 bottles of wine, or 498 pints of beer.

See my post above.

Could I be cynical and suggest one of the reasons for the downturn in alcohol consumption is the upturn in drug consumption?.

Alcohol is one of the panoply of mind and mood-altering drugs and behaviours readily available to young adults now. Poly-drug abuse/misuse/dependency is now more common than the old-fashioned single "drug of preference" model would lead us to believe. Where is the evidence for the downturn in alcohol consumption? Look around. More and more we are economically, psychologically and physiologically dependent on drink. The only upturn is in our degree of denial that we have a problem and the extent of the problem.

Witness the frenzy to get the booze taps opened again for one and all irrespective of the pandemic and the consequences of the new variants for the general population. Masquerading as the "hospitality industry", what passes for culture and leisure and socialising is simply drunkenness.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

With such a high percentage of adult abstainers in this country, per capita calculations successfully and deliberately hide the truth about the extent of the problem we in Ireland have with alcohol.

Yes, but the changes over time are most likely being driven by less consumption by the drinking population, not by an increasing share of teetotalers.

 

[Purple]

With such a high percentage of adult abstainers in this country, per capita calculations successfully and deliberately hide the truth about the extent of the problem we in Ireland have with alcohol.

It also hides the fact that the large increase is mainly due to the massive increase in consumption amongst women.
The link between alcohol consumption and breast cancer is frightening.

 

[Peanuts20]

Witness the frenzy to get the booze taps opened again for one and all irrespective of the pandemic and the consequences of the new variants for the general population. Masquerading as the "hospitality industry", what passes for culture and leisure and socialising is simply drunkenness.

I recall being on holidays 2 years ago in France, (ah the good old days ). Sitting in a restaurant with the family, 3 lads came in, cant have been more then 18, sat down and had a meal and a bottle of wine and then they headed off. I'm not saying that wouldn't happen here but in reality most 18 year old in Ireland would be in a bar, downing shots before heading for soakage in a kebab shop at closing time. Our culture around nightlife in Ireland sucks