Alcohol consumption in Ireland - are we finally ready to admit we have a problem?

[Ceist Beag]

I don't know about anyone else but I can't get my head around the figures coming out from revenue regarding the amount of alcohol consumed in this country (source: https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0504/1213569-politics-alcohol/)
The main figures are:
Alcohol consumption has remained at around 11 litres per person since 2015.
Eleven litres of pure alcohol is the equivalent of 116 bottles of wine or 445 pints of beer per adult every year.

I don't know about anyone else on AAM but personally I don't come next or near to those averages. I'm probably far from average in this regard as I don't really drink a lot at home but given the fact these are averages, that suggests there are a lot of people who drink quite a bit more than this.
I said before that I wasn't in favour of the cheap drink available in supermarkets and these sorts of numbers make it a no brainer imho to introduce minimum pricing.

According to a 2018 WHO report we are 7th highest in consumption in the world (source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita) so isn't it time we took this problem more seriously?

 

[deanpark]

Yes. I agree on minimum pricing as a first step but ultimately govt/ society should be aiming to have no branding on bottles like has been taken off cigarette boxes. No ads allowed. Massive hikes in pricing. Prominent images on bottles/ packaging of damage caused by alcohol to liver, car crashes etc. Basically to stigmatise booze like cigarettes are.

The drinks industry is laughing all the way to the bank while society picks up the tab for social/ health/ family/ criminal harm which is attributable to marketing of and alcohol consumption.

 

[odyssey06]

None of these measures are needed. Alcohol consumption in Ireland is on a general downwards trend and has been for some time.

Our problems with alcohol are not going to be tackled by these measures.

Alcohol should not be stigmatized like tobacco, it is entirely different situation.
There are no grounds for moderate consumption of alcohol to be a matter of public policy concern.

Why is MUP being supported by the vintners association?
This is about sending people back to pubs to drink.
It's nothing to do with drink driving, if anything it could lead to more not less.

The drinks industry will be laughing alright as the extra revenue from MUP goes to them and the retailers.

 

[odyssey06]

I don't know about anyone else but I can't get my head around the figures coming out from revenue regarding the amount of alcohol consumed in this country (source: https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0504/1213569-politics-alcohol/)
The main figures are:
Alcohol consumption has remained at around 11 litres per person since 2015.
Eleven litres of pure alcohol is the equivalent of 116 bottles of wine or 445 pints of beer per adult every year.

I don't know about anyone else on AAM but personally I don't come next or near to those averages. I'm probably far from average in this regard as I don't really drink a lot at home but given the fact these are averages, that suggests there are a lot of people who drink quite a bit more than this.
I said before that I wasn't in favour of the cheap drink available in supermarkets and these sorts of numbers make it a no brainer imho to introduce minimum pricing.

According to a 2018 WHO report we are 7th highest in consumption in the world (source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita) so isn't it time we took this problem more seriously?

Drink isn't cheap in Ireland, we already have the 2nd highest alcohol prices in the EU.

I'd be curious how much of our consumption is down to tourism, after all the Guinness Storehouse was the #1 tourist attraction in the country.
Marketing of Ireland abroad includes marketing out pub culture.
That should probably stop too?

 

[Ceist Beag]

Drink isn't cheap in Ireland, we already have the 2nd highest alcohol prices in the EU.

I'd be curious how much of our consumption is down to tourism, after all the Guinness Storehouse was the #1 tourist attraction in the country.
Marketing of Ireland abroad includes marketing out pub culture.
That should probably stop too?

Pubs have been largely closed for the past year. Yet consumption has only marginally dropped. That suggests the pubs are not the issue - drinking at home is the larger factor.

 

[odyssey06]

Pubs have been largely closed for the past year. Yet consumption has only marginally dropped. That suggests the pubs are not the issue - drinking at home is the larger factor.

Consumption dropped 6%.

Your post makes no sense because pubs were shut.
They'll be opening soon, so to say drinking at home is the larger factor in a once in a lifetime national crisis is neither here nor there on that basis.

You know what did drop while pubs were shut, and by far more than 6%? All kinds of public order offences and assaults against the person.

Why don't you have a problem with alcohol consumed in pubs?

 

[Purple]

I'd be interested to see how the per capita figures by gender. I suspect that, like Ireland in the past, many countries have high levels in the male population and low levels in the female population.

 

[odyssey06]

I'd be interested to see how the per capita figures by gender. I suspect that, like Ireland in the past, many countries have high levels in the male population and low levels in the female population.

If we're getting into demographics you may also need to consider the number of non-drinkers, for age, or religious grounds.
Pioneer movement doesn't seem to be as much of a thing.
When you consider more actual members of the Ireland's population may be drinking regularly, and per capita consumption is dropping, it would suggest the people that are drinking are drinking a good deal less.

 

[Purple]

If we're getting into demographics you may also need to consider the number of non-drinkers, for age, or religious grounds.
Pioneer movement doesn't seem to be as much of a thing.
When you consider more actual members of the Ireland's population may be drinking, and per capita consumption is dropping, it would suggest the people that are drinking are drinking a good deal less.

Yes, that's what I was getting at.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Consumption dropped 6%.

Your post makes no sense because pubs were shut.
They'll be opening soon, so to say drinking at home is the larger factor in a once in a lifetime national crisis is neither here nor there on that basis.

You know what did drop while pubs were shut, and by far more than 6%? All kinds of public order offences and assaults against the person.

Why don't you have a problem with alcohol consumed in pubs?

What I'm saying is that, even with pubs closed for most of the year, the average adult consumption remained extremely high. I find an average of 116 bottles of wine or 445 pints of beer per adult every year to be a jaw dropping number. Maybe you don't, maybe I'm an outlier, but to me that seems like a very high average.

 

[odyssey06]

What I'm saying is that, even with pubs closed for most of the year, the average adult consumption remained extremely high. I find an average of 116 bottles of wine or 445 pints of beer per adult every year to be a jaw dropping number. Maybe you don't, maybe I'm an outlier, but to me that seems like a very high average.

Looked at another way, 116 bottles of wine in a year is about 2 glasses of wine a day, or just over 2 bottles of wine over the course of a weekend.
Or 3 pints of beer 3 nights a week, or 4-5 pints 2 nights a week.

The average will be distorted by a couple of things - the people who don't drink at all on a regular basis (for age, health, religious grounds), and tourism. For people on holiday, every day is a weekend. And Ireland, at home and abroad, especially promotes 'pub culture' and the 'craic' as part of the Irish holiday experience.

* Apologies if I have those maths wrong.

 

[Ceist Beag]

That is my point odyssey. In the past year, by and large tourism numbers would have contributed little to these totals. Those who don't drink much or at all bring the average down. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that there are a large percentage of people for whom these numbers are less than they consume. I would find 4-5 pints 2 nights a week every week of the year to be an awful lot - but there must be a lot of people out there who drink a lot more than this if 4-5 pints 2 nights a week is the average.

 

[odyssey06]

That is my point odyssey. In the past year, by and large tourism numbers would have contributed little to these totals. Those who don't drink much or at all bring the average down. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that there are a large percentage of people for whom these numbers are less than they consume. I would find 4-5 pints 2 nights a week every week of the year to be an awful lot - but there must be a lot of people out there who drink a lot more than this if 4-5 pints 2 nights a week is the average.

Yes, there must be a cohort out there who are drinking significantly more than the average, given that there is some % of Irish residents who don't drink regularly, perhaps 20% in one study I saw but don't know how recent that was.

In terms of this measure though, we have the 2nd highest alcohol prices in the EU in this country.
When pubs were shut, people were purchasing cheaper alcohol in supermarkets & off licences relative to what would be pub and restaurants prices.
Alcohol consumption dropped 6%.
The logic of MUP suggests this should have increased.
Which suggests alcohol is price inelastic.

The people who are drinking far more than is wise or are dependent on alcohol will continue to do so.
This measure penalises responsible and moderate drinkers and the above suggests it won't even achieve its goal.
It will do nothing for issues such as drink driving, public order issues which are largely related to people coming home from pubs & events which MUP won't impact.

And that is wrong to me.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Responsible people invariably end up paying for the behaviour of irresponsible people. I don't know if MUP will bring down the average or not but our average (imho) is too high and needs to be brought down so unless there are other suggestions as to how to bring it down, the MUP for me is at least worth a try.

 

[Purple]

That is my point odyssey. In the past year, by and large tourism numbers would have contributed little to these totals. Those who don't drink much or at all bring the average down. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that there are a large percentage of people for whom these numbers are less than they consume. I would find 4-5 pints 2 nights a week every week of the year to be an awful lot - but there must be a lot of people out there who drink a lot more than this if 4-5 pints 2 nights a week is the average.

Is it still the case that the recommended max for men is 21 units a week? That's about 10 pints or a couple of bottles of wine.

Personally I only drink to silence the screaming voices in my head, not because I need to.

 

[Purple]

Responsible people invariably end up paying for the behaviour of irresponsible people. I don't know if MUP will bring down the average or not but our average (imho) is too high and needs to be brought down so unless there are other suggestions as to how to bring it down, the MUP for me is at least worth a try.

That's always the case. If we are introducing minimum unit pricing we should introduce a fatty (sugar) tax.
I'd be in favour of both.

 

[odyssey06]

Responsible people invariably end up paying for the behaviour of irresponsible people. I don't know if MUP will bring down the average or not but our average (imho) is too high and needs to be brought down so unless there are other suggestions as to how to bring it down, the MUP for me is at least worth a try.

It doesn't need to be brought down, it is already on a downward trajectory. Just wait. That's the direction it has been heading in for last 15 years.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Have you a source for that odyssey? According to it is on the increase, not decrease.

 

[Purple]

It doesn't need to be brought down, it is already on a downward trajectory. Just wait. That's the direction it has been heading in for last 15 years.

Are you trying to say that when women started drinking the average went up but for the last decade and a half people are listening to the public health advice and are drinking less? That's crazy. You're letting facts get in the way of opinion. That's where you're going wrong on this.

 

[odyssey06]

Have you a source for that odyssey? According to it is on the increase, not decrease.

This is from 2018:

New figures from the Revenue Commissioners suggest that alcohol consumption in Ireland fell in 2017.
The latest figures on alcohol consumptions from Revenues clearance data show that the average per adult consumption of alcohol in 2017 declined by approximately 1.4%.
This continues a long-running trend of alcohol consumption falling in Ireland.
According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), alcohol consumption in Ireland has fallen by 25 per cent since 2005.

New figures suggest alcohol consumption in Ireland continues to decline

New figures from the Revenue Commissioners suggest that alcohol consumption in Ireland fell in 2017.

www.irishexaminer.com