A good day for democracy

C

come2ireland

Guest
FF shown increased & increasing arrogance does not pay (watch out Charlie)
FG coming back from the dead (good but ned to do more work)
SF (armalite & ballot box strategy works - Bad for us)
Large turnout (good)
But what about FG/Lab-DemLeft-oldSF/Independent Gov?
Will we pay more in taxes?
Will we have looney expenditure and then more taxes!
rates/property tax on houses over €200k
Certainly CGT of %40+ (Paye rate) But that may come in another FF/PD anyway - excuse will be that they are bringing us into line with everyone else and at the PAYE rate its fair (and us and all our friends have cashed in our property gains so we'er ok)
Tax on Holiday Homes & Second Houses
And give the tenants more rights so we can screw the landlords for tax and they cannot sell for a period of 5 years due to increased tenant rights)

Any other prophecies?
 
Maybe a public health system that's as good as Spain or Portugals'?

No....unfortunately at the moment that seems to be just pure fantasy.
 
celtic tiger money

The value of a society must lie in the way we treat our old, our sick, destitute and our children.

Have we come far?

I don't think so.
 
Re: celtic tiger money

The value of a society must lie in the way we treat our old, our sick, destitute and our children.
Click to expand...
Absolutely - but it doesn't look like you're prepared to pay the price of treating these people well. You don't get nuttin for nuttin.
Will we pay more in taxes?
Will we have looney expenditure and then more taxes!
Click to expand...
 
waste

Value for money in expenditure -we are actually spending a lot per head
2 many passengers are being carried & 2 many vested interests (unions, phrma coms, consultants) and
I don't include nurses or junior docs cause i think they are underpaid, underappreciated and overworked
I believe that micheal is the best hlth min so far but he is up against it
 
Value of a society

Two positions are juxtaposed above:

"The value of a society must lie in the way we treat our old, our sick, destitute and our children."

and

"Absolutely - but it doesn't look like you're prepared to pay the price of treating these people well. You don't get nuttin for nuttin."

There is a strange contradiction in the way we view our government. Many of us resent the way the government "interferes" with us in the daily business of getting on with our lives. On the other hand, many of us assume that the job of looking after the old, the sick, the destitute and our children is clearly one in which the state should have a major role. I wholeheartedly agree that a society can be judged at least in part by the way its vulnerable are treated. But it does not automatically follow that there shuold therefore be a large state apparatus to look after the vulnerable. What is society but all of us? Why on earth should we assume (for example) that taxation-derived state-disbursed funding is the best way to care for our aged? In its present incarnation, it seems to me that state funding to care for the aged is a very blunt instrument indeed. Local, community based organisations seem to me to do a far better job, where given the chance; The job of looking after the old is the job of all of us - by contracting it out to the state via our tax bills, we are ghettoising the aged and making them feel useless long before their time.
 
Re: Value of a society

Hi MOB - I think there are two seperate questions here;

- who funds the service
- who delivers the service

My rationale for a state-funded service is that this is the only way I can think over to ensure that a minimum level service is guaranteed as a right. While it's great to see community based services, should persons who just happen to live in an area where the community are not so community-minded be left to suffer?

I'd be certainly open to arguement as to why local organisations could deliver the service when they are funded by the state.
 
election

SF (armalite & ballot box strategy works - Bad for us)
Click to expand...

Who the hell is - us?
Do you mean - you?

Evidently a large, and increasing section of the population are sick of the same old crap from FF/FG/PDs etc. and are voting for a new deal. If you don't like it that's your tough luck, so don't presume to speak for anyone but yourself, OK!
The people have spoken, and SF are on the up.

I'm overjoyed to see SF sticking it to McDowell and the rest of his ilk (he's actually SF's best recruiter).
 
bug blu

us = this who

Think murder is wrong
Believe in the rule of law
Do not want punishment beatings
Believe that placing a bomb that kills children is wrong
Believe that the shinner way as practised by north korea and the old USSR is a failure
Believe that a secret army should not be used foe leverage
............................................etc
 
.

I'd quite be quite happy if I could opt out of paying tax all my life, and look after myself when I'm old (using all the 'tax' money)

Dole people certainly have never had it so good. One dole couple I know have just come back from two weeks holiday in Bulgaria.
 
What

I would rather a week in Mosney than a week in Bulgaria , blody dole spongers could have gone to at least a secular country rather than a third world pit.
 
Come2Ireland (but only if you're a West Brit)

Yes I'm a Sinn Feiner supporter. And today feeling more and more proud of it.

Sinn Fein now represent 14.5% (at latest count) of the Irish electorate. Fianna Fail have just 22%, and at the rate they're falling they'll be out polled by Sinn Fein within a few short years.
FG are even shorter on the odds.

Sinn Fein are the main reason there's a peace process in this country, so all your ould claptrap is just water off a ducks back. The public are finally seeing through your middle class/builders/bankers/backscratchers black propoganda. They are voting with their feet.
No armalites required!

You're history, get outta the way.
 
.

XXXAnother PersonXXX said:

"I'd quite be quite happy if I could opt out of paying tax all my life, and look after myself when I'm old"


So what would happen if you were involved in a substantial court case and lost all your wealth. Then you were involved in an accident and had your hands damaged & amputated, so you could not work?

Who would look after you then?
 
Re: .

XXXAnother PersonXXX said:

"I'd quite be quite happy if I could opt out of paying tax all my life, and look after myself when I'm old"

One small question,

what about schools, hospitals, street lighting, roads, gardai, water sanitation, sewage works, subsidised public transport, street sweepers etc

Do you think these are all free?
 
bugbli

Go on then, justify one bombing !

I bet you have never stood in a street after a bomb went off.

Armchair general
 
A good day etc.

It is bad for democracy for one party to be in power for 18 out of 20 years. They havn't done a bad job overall despite what The Irish Times/RTE/The Labour party (as far as I can see they are all one in the same) may say.
A FG lead government with a minor role for the Pinko's would be the best option for the next time around.
It would be worth the economic set backs to get rid of Bertie.
 
i agree

FF need to do time in opposition as do all political parties

Will Mary Louper decommission the EU army when she goes to Europe?

Maybe Gerry will take over European defence and Martin can be in charge of Internal Security

Beatings will continue until all agree
 
Cannot support anyone who supports violence...

I understand the need to vote for someone else other than FF/FG but it saddens me to see people turn to the likes of SF.

As Gandhi once said
" Democracy and violence can ill go together.
Evolution of democracy is not possible if we are not prepared to hear the other side."

I believe in debate but you cannot have a debate with threat of violence. My only hope is that with growing power of SF that they might be forced to disarm their private army in order to enter into government with one of the larger parties.

Elk
 
Re: Cannot support anyone who supports violence...

Evidently a large, and increasing section of the population are sick of the same old crap from FF/FG/PDs etc. and are voting for a new deal.
Click to expand...
The same could have been said for the Green Party, 15, 10 or 2 years ago. Now the Green light has dimmed as people realise they're not all they're cracked up to be, especially that their economic policies are crazy.

Sinn Fein now have a very good chance to learn from the Greens' mistake but unless they adopt realistic economic policy positions and clean up their act in relation to the probity of people they are putting forward for election (social welfare fraudsters, former bombers etc), they will bite the dust in due course.

I'm overjoyed to see SF sticking it to McDowell and the rest of his ilk (he's actually SF's best recruiter).
Click to expand...
Should McDowell have stayed silent? I actually believe his suspicions (and in fairness they are only suspicions) are grave enough to warrant a comprehensive probe of SFIRA by the Criminal Assets Bureau. Time to act, Michael...
 
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