10,000 people earn more than 500K

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While I'm no supporter of SF, it is reasonable to point out that income inequality is wide in Ireland.

Pre taxes and transfers, it is wide.

Now, this is partly due to too many people not being in employment.

But it's also due to cartels/excessive fees/charges in legal/medical/property sectors.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
But should they be able to?
There has to be a realisation sooner rather than later that not everyone can afford to live in Dublin.
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I 100% agree with you on this actually, my point wasn't at all about the cost of living in Dublin, it was just the example I chose. I was just trying to illustrate my point that I don't think €20/30k is a big salary by any means and I don't agree that people in these salary bands pay far too little tax. I'm curious what you would be proposing to tax these people?

A two income family with both workers on €30k is coming away with what €4k after tax per month? Lets say they have two kids and choose to live outside Dublin, they'd be paying maybe €1k on a mortgage, not sure on childcare (maybe €1.5k if their family help out?), couple of hundred on health insurance, couple of hundred on pension contributions, maybe €500 on two cheap cars (?), a few quid on TV licence, property tax, water tax, maybe €250 on food. That leaves €250 and I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff in there. Where is there room for living and saving for a rainy day in there, let alone paying more tax.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
So €4,250 a month.

Hardly penury.
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I’m not implying these people are living in poverty, I’m questioning their capacity to pay far more tax. Do you disagree with my numbers there and out of interest how much more tax would you like them to pay?
 
In Germany, the tax thresholds and rates mean taxes kick in at a very low rate. Thus they aren't left with the narrow base like we have again managed to achieve here in Ireland

For 2017 a taxable income of less than €8,820 was tax-free for a single person (€17,640 for a married couple). Incomes up to €54,058 for a single person (€108,116 for a couple) were then taxed with a rate progressively increasing from 14% to 42%
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Gordon Gekko said:
It’s pretty disingenuous stuff from Sinn Fein/IRA as usual.
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Even if it was true, it's typical begrudgery from SF regarding anyone progressing themselves.


Very high salaries don't just happen!!


And the more people we have that can earn such salaries in this country the better off we all become thanks to the high taxes we pose.
 
Zenith63 said:
I’m not implying these people are living in poverty, I’m questioning their capacity to pay far more tax. Do you disagree with my numbers there and out of interest how much more tax would you like them to pay?
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About €8,000 in total on a salary of €40,000.
 
Zenith63 said:
I'm confused, people on €40k already pay €8500 in IT, PRSI and USC, which is more than you're suggesting?
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Apologies, I was still thinking about the couple on €30k a month in the earlier post who pay €4,500. I think that they should pay around €6k.

Someone on €40k? Perhaps €10k.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Apologies, I was still thinking about the couple on €30k a month in the earlier post who pay €4,500. I think that they should pay around €6k.

Someone on €40k? Perhaps €10k.
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And out of interest, what are you basing these figures on?

What were your thoughts on my costs for a typical €30+€30k family living outside Dublin above, their ability to pay more tax and the benefit to society of them doing so?
 
SBarrett said:
I have a few clients who earn over €500,000. They are top of their field in what they do and they work a savage amount of hours. They also pay huge amounts of tax each year.

Sinn Fein like to demonise these people as the elite who should be sneered at and got at when they should be used as an example of what you can achieve. If you are willing to better yourself, do that bit more work after 5pm, follow up with your ideas. There are plenty of people in business who will help you along the way, who want to see people achieve. Not Sinn Fein, they want everyone to be the working man, to come in at 9, clock off at 5 and never get above the working wage (except for them though, they find ways to feather their own nests).

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
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Here here
 
Gordon Gekko said:
It is true actually. Rents in London are sky-high and a huge number of low to mid level City workers, for example, commute from a long way out. I should know; I’ve lived in London and seen it with my own eyes.

There is a solution to house prices being high and rents being high...live in Mullingar or Tyrellspass!
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The problem with this is that almost all govt policies are centralising all services, jobs, education and healthcare, transport in Dublin.
So they are drawing all the population from other parts of the country to Dublin. So for many people all their family and friends and social infrastructure are in Dublin.
The majority of Jobs are in Dublin.

Its not simply about the price of housing.

The Govt should have a economic policy that promotes the whole country not simply Dublin.
 
AlbacoreA said:
The problem with this is that almost all govt policies are centralising all services, jobs, education and healthcare, transport in Dublin.
So they are drawing all the population from other parts of the country to Dublin. So for many people all their family and friends and social infrastructure are in Dublin.
The majority of Jobs are in Dublin.

Its not simply about the price of housing.

The Govt should have a economic policy that promotes the whole country not simply Dublin.
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Didn't they come out with a spatial strategy back in the Celtic Tiger? Then decentralisation was announced and they decided to move govt depts to the minister at the times home constituency.

But you are wholly right, they should promote the entire country and increase wealth and opportunities in other towns and cities.

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
The main problem with the decentralisation programme in 2003 was that the 3-year deadline was unrealistic.

Commercial site and property costs suddenly escalated in the proposed decentralised areas because they had to be bought within the timeframe - thus driving up costs to unsustainable levels.

However, decentralisation is still the right way to go, perhaps in a more measured timespan.
 
Sophrosyne said:
The main problem with the decentralisation programme in 2003 was that the 3-year deadline was unrealistic.
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I thought that there was quite a bit of push back from senior civil servants and/or ministers who didn't want to be moved outside "the Pale" - away from the centre of power
 
jpd said:
I thought that there was quite a bit of push back from senior civil servants and/or ministers who didn't want to be moved outside "the Pale" - away from the centre of power
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That was true in part, but by far and away, the deal breaker was ever increasing costs, which couldn't be justified and which provided recalcitrants with a perfect excuse for staying put.

If the timeframe had been longer, with sufficient time to develop infrastructure, then decentralisation would have been more attractive.

Of course, on the one hand there will always be the power crazed who feel that out of sight is out of mind, but on the other hand if they are good enough and respected enough, their location is usually immaterial.
 
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jpd said:
I thought that there was quite a bit of push back from senior civil servants and/or ministers who didn't want to be moved outside "the Pale" - away from the centre of power
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One problem was some of the decentralisation was manipulated by local politics so that locations that had nothing to do with the national plan appeared, which no one wanted to go to.
Lots of people couldn't get the locations they wanted, in that people from Dublin couldn't stay in Dublin and people want to move home out of Dublin were stuck in Dublin.
You also had the issue of Couples being given different unworkable locations (too far apart).
Besides which since then, there's been an every greater shift of services (of every type) to Dublin. So if you had moved, you'd be feeling pretty hard done by.
 
Sophrosyne said:
That was true in part, but by far and away, the deal breaker was ever increasing costs, which couldn't be justified and which provided recalcitrants with a perfect excuse for staying put.....
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It was never costed properly. They included the cost of Dublin property sometimes as if they owned the proeprty, when in fact they didn't.
They also moved offices which had to do a lot of meetings with other offices. So where they used to go across Dublin to a meeting. Now it was across the country.
 
SBarrett said:
Not Sinn Fein, they want everyone to be the working man, to come in at 9, clock off at 5 and never get above the working wage (except for them though, they find ways to feather their own nests).

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
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On the average industrial wage, Gerry Adams is able to maintain three properties (Belfast, Louth and Donegal, I believe). He should be the next Minister for Finance the way he's able to handle his own finances!
 
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