Just wondering if any those non Irish residents on the site would move back to Ireland and the reasoning behind the consideration to move. This question is particularly directed to those who have grown up, been educated and may have commenced their working life in Ireland but have been away for the past 10-15 years. Many thanks in advance for your comments.
Would you move back to Ireland?
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I already did - last year - having spent 10 years in the US. The decision was not based on money, needless to say. We knew we'd be earning less and that housing would be more... but we moved to be closer to family and to have our daughter educated over here. We haven't regretted it, though the first couple of months were a little tough!
I returned to Ireland last year after almost 13 years overseas working in Australia and Africa. Most of my working life therefore had been overseas. My main reason for returning home was family related (parents getting old etc). I was very excited at the prospect of working professionally in Ireland, given I work in the IT industry. I haven't regretted my decision for a moment. I love being home, bought an (overpriced) apartment and have been in a few different jobs since returning home, finding my feet. If you are thinking of doing the same, feel free to PM me.
thought about it for sometime but expensive housing and poor infrastructure have put me off for the moment. my brother is lucky enough to live in a period property in a very desirable south dublin address - for him life in dublin is fantastic but i would be looking at a more modest home some distance from the centre of Dublin.
i live in london and do like it over here. i am married with kids and we live in a 5-bed edwardian house in a really pleasant area. i cycle to work in the summer and the commuting via the tube only takes me 35mins or so door-to-door. there is a suberb school at the bottom of the road and we have a good social life. to replicate this life in dublin would be difficult without a lot of cash but whenever i have looked for work at home i have always been unimpressed by the salaries on offer.
to be honest i think that my quality of life would suffer if i moved back. my friends are spread out all over dublin and getting around that city is not easy. housing is as expensive (if not more so) than London but wages (for my job at least) are at least half of what i would get here.
if there were a property price crash i would certainly have to think about moving back. my job would not really be dependent upon the irish economy so i would be in a better position than many others.
i live in london and do like it over here. i am married with kids and we live in a 5-bed edwardian house in a really pleasant area. i cycle to work in the summer and the commuting via the tube only takes me 35mins or so door-to-door. there is a suberb school at the bottom of the road and we have a good social life. to replicate this life in dublin would be difficult without a lot of cash but whenever i have looked for work at home i have always been unimpressed by the salaries on offer.
to be honest i think that my quality of life would suffer if i moved back. my friends are spread out all over dublin and getting around that city is not easy. housing is as expensive (if not more so) than London but wages (for my job at least) are at least half of what i would get here.
if there were a property price crash i would certainly have to think about moving back. my job would not really be dependent upon the irish economy so i would be in a better position than many others.
Im still abroad, Switzerland, and have been abroad for the last 7 years. I am lucky right now in that we've no children (my husband is swiss) so I hop on a plane quite frequently and come home to visit friends and family (Im home between 10 to 15 times a year).
Its hard to say you a never coming back and I genuinely do want to be back sometimes. However my motivations are purely family and friends. My quality of life is higher here and Im financially better off. Though Switzerland is notoriously expensive Im beginning to find Dublin (where my family are) more expensive. Weve just bought a house here in Zurich that we wouldnt be able to afford ever in Dublin (5 bedroom, detached).
From the perspective of starting a family, I know it will be harder. Again for family reasons I would like to be home. However for education reasons I do think Switzerland is better. While irish education system is great (I did well out of it) the swiss education system I think is a bit better in that
a. you learn and live in 2 to 3 languages from a very early age
b. if you dont fit into the study, exam model, point system you have many alternatives in CH where as at home (or at least when I was a school) you were regarded as a slow and didnt really have options until you completed school and felt like a failure for not having gotten into university
c. finally there is a lot of things for kids of all ages to do here, lots of facilities and ammenties.
So if I were to bring my children home to be educated I feel it would be more for my benefit than theirs. That said having gone to school in Irish I feel sad that they will probably never learn Irish.
All in all, I count myself lucky. There are 2 countries I see myself totally at home in, and both countries have many advantages that out way their cons.
Its hard to say you a never coming back and I genuinely do want to be back sometimes. However my motivations are purely family and friends. My quality of life is higher here and Im financially better off. Though Switzerland is notoriously expensive Im beginning to find Dublin (where my family are) more expensive. Weve just bought a house here in Zurich that we wouldnt be able to afford ever in Dublin (5 bedroom, detached).
From the perspective of starting a family, I know it will be harder. Again for family reasons I would like to be home. However for education reasons I do think Switzerland is better. While irish education system is great (I did well out of it) the swiss education system I think is a bit better in that
a. you learn and live in 2 to 3 languages from a very early age
b. if you dont fit into the study, exam model, point system you have many alternatives in CH where as at home (or at least when I was a school) you were regarded as a slow and didnt really have options until you completed school and felt like a failure for not having gotten into university
c. finally there is a lot of things for kids of all ages to do here, lots of facilities and ammenties.
So if I were to bring my children home to be educated I feel it would be more for my benefit than theirs. That said having gone to school in Irish I feel sad that they will probably never learn Irish.
All in all, I count myself lucky. There are 2 countries I see myself totally at home in, and both countries have many advantages that out way their cons.
I was away for several years, the majority of paddies I came to know and befriend are now back too, they were away for mostly 5/6 yrs, all of us are back in Ireland for at least 2 yrs, and none of us regret the move at all. That's not to say I would have any difficulties in moving abroad again if economically necessary.
I was an economic migrant from Ireland to UK in 1973. The RoI was in the doldrums; I "failed Irish" in my Leaving Cert and in those pre-modular days you therefore 'failed' the whole shebang so I resonate with the remarks about greater flexibility and opportunities elsewhere, e.g. Switzerland.
For those 30 years all my holidays, spare-time (and money) revolved around family and friends in Ireland.....however with the passing of time family have died off and fewer friends in the network.
My heart - quite literally - 'sings' when I get off the plane in Dublin Airport.....and that view of the Wicklow hills from the top of O'Connell Street is for me one of the most moving in the world.
Though my intention remains to return to Ireland, now there is no family connection I see the country - and the changes in the people brought by increased prosperity - in a new light. I had very difficult and challenging experiences with the Irish 'system' including solicitors, auctioneers, medical and social services and trades-people in my roles vis-a-vis my late family. I found many to be impatient, patronising and grasping.Friends - including one who returned after many years abroad to care for frail elderly parents - confirmed that Irish life now had all the disadvantages of the UK without any of the advantages. Thinking about the comments of previous posters who currently live in the UK, my experience matches that.
I have a box-full of post-graduate qualifications because the UK education system was sufficiently flexible to allow me to - as a mature student - resume education and develop my talents. As far as employment is concerned I have always had good jobs and never had any feeling during interview that "closed shop" ethics applied (my information from friends is that it's still 'who you know' which determines your success or lack of it in some professional areas in Ireland!!!). Three years ago when I applied for jobs in Dublin I was overqualified for most; those I short-listed for were American-style short-term contracts which does not give you an adequate secure base, in my view........and I would have been taking a cut in salary. I've never sussed whether tax for middle-income earners is higher in Ireland but indirect taxes on goods and services certainly appear to be.
My money goes further here than it would be in Ireland and short visits to Dublin guzzle money. The cost of living for ordinary things - including public transport - is high and the quality low. I did a trawl of TESCO superstore prices comparing UK/RoI prices about a year ago and the same basket of basic groceries cost over a hundred euros a month more like-for-like.
Through hard work in my late 50's I now own my small period house in the centre of town 5 minutes walk from train and bus-station a 50-minute train-journey from the centre of London. There is no way I could have such amenity in Ireland. The traffic in Dublin and the difficulties of getting around are phenomenal and it concerns me the roads are amongst the most dangerous in Europe. We pay high Council tax here but can then insist on good services. My local Council recycles everything - including plastics - provides containers for tins, garden waste, paper and old clothing fortnightly and the environment is well-kept (for example Council planted two million flowering bulbs in grass verges, traffic-islands, parkland etc. to mark the millenium). As far as pension and benefits in later age are concerned those are probably now on a par with the UK and I hope people will ensure they stay that way (alas I feel older peoples' benefits is one of the first things which will - quietly - be removed when the economy stalls/crashes).
The property situation has probably tipped the balance against returning as even country cottages in the a***hole of the country (which is where I would like to retire to, to have a bit of peace and quiet and space for a garden) are now been marketed as "in the region of" - which means letting yourself in for the meat-grinder of bidding-wars. I love Ireland very much, miss it and would live out my days there if that were possible but over the past 5 years I think the tide is turning - for me - in favour of a rural home in France, or Italy or Portugal. A friend who took early retirement to Cyprus three years ago recommends it highly
.
For those 30 years all my holidays, spare-time (and money) revolved around family and friends in Ireland.....however with the passing of time family have died off and fewer friends in the network.
My heart - quite literally - 'sings' when I get off the plane in Dublin Airport.....and that view of the Wicklow hills from the top of O'Connell Street is for me one of the most moving in the world.
Though my intention remains to return to Ireland, now there is no family connection I see the country - and the changes in the people brought by increased prosperity - in a new light. I had very difficult and challenging experiences with the Irish 'system' including solicitors, auctioneers, medical and social services and trades-people in my roles vis-a-vis my late family. I found many to be impatient, patronising and grasping.Friends - including one who returned after many years abroad to care for frail elderly parents - confirmed that Irish life now had all the disadvantages of the UK without any of the advantages. Thinking about the comments of previous posters who currently live in the UK, my experience matches that.
I have a box-full of post-graduate qualifications because the UK education system was sufficiently flexible to allow me to - as a mature student - resume education and develop my talents. As far as employment is concerned I have always had good jobs and never had any feeling during interview that "closed shop" ethics applied (my information from friends is that it's still 'who you know' which determines your success or lack of it in some professional areas in Ireland!!!). Three years ago when I applied for jobs in Dublin I was overqualified for most; those I short-listed for were American-style short-term contracts which does not give you an adequate secure base, in my view........and I would have been taking a cut in salary. I've never sussed whether tax for middle-income earners is higher in Ireland but indirect taxes on goods and services certainly appear to be.
My money goes further here than it would be in Ireland and short visits to Dublin guzzle money. The cost of living for ordinary things - including public transport - is high and the quality low. I did a trawl of TESCO superstore prices comparing UK/RoI prices about a year ago and the same basket of basic groceries cost over a hundred euros a month more like-for-like.
Through hard work in my late 50's I now own my small period house in the centre of town 5 minutes walk from train and bus-station a 50-minute train-journey from the centre of London. There is no way I could have such amenity in Ireland. The traffic in Dublin and the difficulties of getting around are phenomenal and it concerns me the roads are amongst the most dangerous in Europe. We pay high Council tax here but can then insist on good services. My local Council recycles everything - including plastics - provides containers for tins, garden waste, paper and old clothing fortnightly and the environment is well-kept (for example Council planted two million flowering bulbs in grass verges, traffic-islands, parkland etc. to mark the millenium). As far as pension and benefits in later age are concerned those are probably now on a par with the UK and I hope people will ensure they stay that way (alas I feel older peoples' benefits is one of the first things which will - quietly - be removed when the economy stalls/crashes).
The property situation has probably tipped the balance against returning as even country cottages in the a***hole of the country (which is where I would like to retire to, to have a bit of peace and quiet and space for a garden) are now been marketed as "in the region of" - which means letting yourself in for the meat-grinder of bidding-wars. I love Ireland very much, miss it and would live out my days there if that were possible but over the past 5 years I think the tide is turning - for me - in favour of a rural home in France, or Italy or Portugal. A friend who took early retirement to Cyprus three years ago recommends it highly
.Dan The Man
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I have been away on and off for about 10 years.
Before I left, I could stagger home merrily from the city centre late on a Saturday night, not now!
Everything seemed so much cheaper then, and I make a lot more now!
There has been a lot of good and bad changed with the place over that time, I still think I will eventually come back for good, but just not yet.
It's still a great place to visit, especially golf and fishing.
Before I left, I could stagger home merrily from the city centre late on a Saturday night, not now!
Everything seemed so much cheaper then, and I make a lot more now!
There has been a lot of good and bad changed with the place over that time, I still think I will eventually come back for good, but just not yet.
It's still a great place to visit, especially golf and fishing.
F
fitzy73
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I've thought about it long and hard, and the upshot is a definite no. I moved to London 6 years ago, and have great job and good career prospects here. I get the occasional email from employers in Ireland, and frankly the salaries they are offering are laughable - less than I was on 6 years ago in Dublin (One you've converted them to €).
I love Ireland, and I miss my family and friends greatly. However, looking at the stupidly overpriced houses, the comedy that is infrastructure and above all the intolerance for "non nationals" I find myself thinking it's not for me anymore.
IMHO (and I hope for the sake of those family and friends that I am wrong) Ireland is heading into a deep pile of dog doo doo over the next few years. Manufacturing jobs are going at the rate of knots, and the move to "high value knowledge based" jobs is some TD's idea of a sick joke. Interest rates will hit 4.5 % by next year, the housing sector will collapse and the level of personal debt will cripple people for years to come. Again, I hope I'm wrong but ....
I love Ireland, and I miss my family and friends greatly. However, looking at the stupidly overpriced houses, the comedy that is infrastructure and above all the intolerance for "non nationals" I find myself thinking it's not for me anymore.
IMHO (and I hope for the sake of those family and friends that I am wrong) Ireland is heading into a deep pile of dog doo doo over the next few years. Manufacturing jobs are going at the rate of knots, and the move to "high value knowledge based" jobs is some TD's idea of a sick joke. Interest rates will hit 4.5 % by next year, the housing sector will collapse and the level of personal debt will cripple people for years to come. Again, I hope I'm wrong but ....
one aspect of modern Ireland that has not been touched upon in this thread so far is the how the people have changed. to be fair people are still friendly back in Ireland and there is certainly a feeling about the place that you do not get elsewhere. but the attitude towards money and wealth has become, to be frank, quite crass. I work in the financial district of London, surrounded by people who make large amounts of money evey year (one year's bonus could pay off the average UK mortgage), but you rarely (if ever) hear them talk about money. of course, they do live in the best areas and their children are educated privately, but they would never dream of telling you what they paid for their house, or indeed, ask you what you paid for yours.
It never ceases to amaze me how freely some Irish people openly discuss house prices and sometimes even salaries in public. i have bumped into schoold friends who have not hesitated to tell me exactly how much they paid for a property and, moreover, what it was worth as of that morning. perhaps i am just old fashioned.
It never ceases to amaze me how freely some Irish people openly discuss house prices and sometimes even salaries in public. i have bumped into schoold friends who have not hesitated to tell me exactly how much they paid for a property and, moreover, what it was worth as of that morning. perhaps i am just old fashioned.
Surely the UK is even worse for that, far more Xenophobic newspapers with alarmist headlines...
F
fitzy73
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Dave are you following me from Munsterfans?!!
Absolutely true - the Daily Mail is an absolute rag and the Torygraph not too far behind. The Sun is a lost cause. Despite that, I do find people here are far more tolerant, if that is the right word. I am certainly more "aware" of ethnic differences. A good example - a friend of mine was over from Limerick last weekend - on the way home he commented that he was "working like a black at the moment". Now he didn't mean it in a racist way, but it's something I would simply not say here. The other thing - there is a real mixture of people in any given area, esp in London. I have One Chinese, two Indians and 2 West Africans on my doorstep - restaurants I mean
GeneralZod
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It isn't just the little people. The leader of Seanad Éireann, Mary O'Rourke, made the same gaffe relatively recently!
bogwarrior
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I have One Chinese, two Indians and 2 West Africans on my doorstep - restaurants I mean
yeah, but do the workers from those restuarants live in your area or just work there?
I was abroad for 8 years - 3 in NY and 5 in Australia - and have been home for a year (elderly parents). The adjustment was difficult but you soon get back in the swing of things - i'm not living or working in Dublin though, and am quite happy about the fact (great town, lived there for a year out of college but couldn't see myself paying a huge mortgage to live in a 3bed semi in the outer suburbs now).
I earn a lot less than I did when I was away, but if i was chasing dollars I would never have come home in the first place - there are more important things in life.
If I had a choice in the matter I'd still live abroad - and will probably move away again in the future - but for now, in the circumstances, its nice to be home and near family.
CelloPoint
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Eh, how can you put the Daily Telegraph in the same sentence as the Daily Mail?
The Telegraph is a good read (especially their business, sport and features sections). I also like the Telegraph because they report on the major news from the Vatican without all the anti-Catholic slurs that you get from the Irish media.
Please elaborate on the "pile of dog doo doo" that we're heading for.
Ireland's interest rate is currently 3%, 1.5% less than the United Kingdom. Interest rates globally (EU, UK and US) are on the upward trend, so we're likely to see this gap remain rather than converge in your timeframe.
Ireland's rate of inflation in July was exactly the same as the United Kingdom - 2.4%.
As for personal debt levels, by all accounts the United Kingdom is in worse doo doo than Ireland - have a look [broken link removed].
And while we're at it, remind me where school children have been stabbed to death because they were black? Or where town and city centres were badly damaged because of race riots? Or where one of the biggest growing political parties is called the BNP?
Remind me also where there was a housing collapse in the last decade or two? I'm sure it wasn't in Ireland anyway.
Congratulations to you and your great job and prospects in London. Having been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt for a number of years myself, I hope things stay rosy for you. Just beware, that as a non-national yourself over there, that you too could end up in some doo doo as well.
And finally, if you're going to cast aspersions on your own country, and by association with all of us who who still live here and pay taxes in order to support your family in their old age, please be specific, accurate, and non-alarmist. In the (almost) words from Dragnet, "just the facts, sir!!!".
No, they're just anti-Irish instead.
GeneralZod
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No more anti-irish and probably less so than the anglo-phobia that is prevalent in the Irish media.
bogwarrior
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do they have an Oirish edition? the biggest change I've noticed since returning is how, in some respects, we've turned into a mini-britain - the ubiquitous chain stores everywhere (now Roches are turning into Debenams), SKY tv, and the Oirish editions of the English tabloids. Not sure if this is bad thing, but its certainly a big change.