Working in the Middle East is like working in apartheid South Africa

No, it's not the same thing at all.
Guying stock in a company there or being a distributor for goods that are manufactured there is similar but buying oil isn't.
Sounds very complicated. Maybe someone should draw a chart.

The Irish government encourages direct trade with these countries and enterprise Ireland brings ministers to head trade missions to the region. Trade relationships are not just tolerated, but actively encouraged.

But young Irish workers, excluded from the housing market as a result if the policy failures of the same government, who seek to put a few quid together are morally reprehensible by comparison.

Riddle me that one.
 
Sounds very complicated. Maybe someone should draw a chart.
Yes, you could use your moral compass to navigate it.
The Irish government encourages direct trade with these countries and enterprise Ireland brings ministers to head trade missions to the region. Trade relationships are not just tolerated, but actively encouraged.
Yes, we shouldn't be doing that.
But young Irish workers, excluded from the housing market as a result if the policy failures of the same government, who seek to put a few quid together are morally reprehensible by comparison.
The idea that young people are excluded from housing because of policy failures of the Irish government is nonsense. They are excluded because of global economic decisions which the Irish government has been relatively successful at mitigating.
Not being able to buy a house in a location that one wants it not a justification for actively participating in a system that allows slavery, the murder of LGBT people and the gross oppression (and murder) of women.

Do you think the desire to get the money together to buy a house enough to justify anything? Was it enough to justify working in Apartheid era South Africa? They exported coal. Was lighting the fire in your house the same as working in South Africa?
 
Yes, we shouldn't be doing that.
Well we are. In the circumstances, it’s unreasonable to assume that young workers should be any more informed or high-minded.

Maybe when you’ve successfully convinced the government to break economic ties with the region, you can turn your attention to educating young people on the evil they’re supporting by working abroad.
 
Well we are. In the circumstances, it’s unreasonable to assume that young workers should be any more informed or high-minded.

Maybe when you’ve successfully convinced the government to break economic ties with the region, you can turn your attention to educating young people on the evil they’re supporting by working abroad.
Do you agree that people are more oppressed in many Middle Eastern Countries than black people were in South Africa during Apartheid?

Do you think that it was okay to work in and therefore support Apartheid era South Africa?

In my opinion condemning the oppression of one group by another only when the group doing the oppressing is white in inherently racist.
 
Do you agree that people are more oppressed in many Middle Eastern Countries than black people were in South Africa during Apartheid?

Do you think that it was okay to work in and therefore support Apartheid era South Africa?
I wouldn’t have worked work in South Africa but that’s not the point.

Our current relationship with the Middle East is complex and measurable on a variety of levels. As you’ve alluded to, we all benefit to varying degrees from this relationship. Dunnes Stores workers went on strike in apartheid times but I don’t see any similar outrage here in relation to anything that’s currently happening in the Middle East. There would be considerable scope to take a stand for anyone suitably motivated.

I think it’s a hideous place to live or even visit but why should our distaste for the region be necessarily channeled through a tut-tutting at the choices of young professionals who are just doing what economic migrants have done for decades.
 
I wouldn’t have worked work in South Africa but that’s not the point.
That is the point.
Our current relationship with the Middle East is complex and measurable on a variety of levels. As you’ve alluded to, we all benefit to varying degrees from this relationship.
Yes, and the line is blurred, but participating in and working for the oppressive regime is well over that line.

Dunnes Stores workers went on strike in apartheid times but I don’t see any similar outrage here in relation to anything that’s currently happening in the Middle East. There would be considerable scope to take a stand for anyone suitably motivated.
I agree.
I think it’s a hideous place to live or even visit but why should our distaste for the region be necessarily channeled through a tut-tutting at the choices of young professionals who are just doing what economic migrants have done for decades.
I don't see that the age, qualification or job title of the participant has to do with anything. Calling out active collusion with, and participation in, an oppressive State is not tut-tutting. I'm simply pointing out the moral choice such people are making. They are entitled to do so but it's not unreasonable to point out the moral implications of their choice.
 
I don't see that the age, qualification or job title of the participant has to do with anything. Calling out active collusion with, and participation in, an oppressive State is not tut-tutting. I'm simply pointing out the moral choice such people are making. They are entitled to do so but it's not unreasonable to point out the moral implications of their choice.
Well everyone makes their own decisions based on their own morals.

I just don’t agree that the actions of working professionals should the focus when there is so much more the rest of us could be doing in protest, either collectively or as individuals, if we were suitably motivated.
 
Well everyone makes their own decisions based on their own morals.

I just don’t agree that the actions of working professionals should the focus when there is so much more the rest of us could be doing in protest, either collectively or as individuals, if we were suitably motivated.
I'm referring to anyone working there, whether they are professionals or not, but I suppose everyone seems to be a professional nowadays.

There's actually now much we can do, other than choose not to directly participate.
 
There's actually now much we can do, other than choose not to directly participate.
Well, off the top of my head, we could organise a boycott of Sky TV until they drop coverage of F1 races in the region?????

Nah, me neither.
 
Well, off the top of my head, we could organise a boycott of Sky TV until they drop coverage of F1 races in the region?????
You can choose not to subscribe to sky sports but what we're talking about would be someone who was working for a company in the region which was involved in the races in the region and was not paying income tax because of the exploitative system of government in their chosen country of residence.
Nah, me neither.
You neither what?

Your contention seems to be that because there is no clear line that removes any and all moral culpability from those who choose to work in and directly profit from deeply unjust and repressive States. I disagree.
 
You can choose not to subscribe to sky sports but what we're talking about would be someone who was working for a company in the region which was involved in the races in the region and was not paying income tax because of the exploitative system of government in their chosen country of residence.

You neither what?

Your contention seems to be that because there is no clear line that removes any and all moral culpability from those who choose to work in and directly profit from deeply unjust and repressive States. I disagree.
What about the migrant workers from Bangladesh and other countries who built the World Cup stadiums and who doubtless do other low paid work that contributes to the economic well being of their host country.

Are they equally reprehensible or do they get a pass because their working conditions are reportedly so poor?

Or it just that people shouldn’t be happy to work there?
 
What about the migrant workers from Bangladesh and other countries who built the World Cup stadiums and who doubtless do other low paid work that contributes to the economic well being of their host country.

Are they equally reprehensible or do they get a pass because their working conditions are reportedly so poor?

Or it just that people shouldn’t be happy to work there?
The people at the bottom rarely benefit from their own exploitation. I'm unaware of any Irish people taking those jobs. If they weren't being exploited and there was a decent social infrastructure in place then the highly paid Irish would have to pay some income tax. They aren't paying any because such a social infrastructure isn't in place.
 
Not only are their working conditions poor, but they are also lethal.

This report is two years old, but I have read nothing to indicate working conditions are any better for migrant workers.

Dying to keep families at home alive is not too dramatic a headline.

 
Not only are their working conditions poor, but they are also lethal.

This report is two years old, but I have read nothing to indicate working conditions are any better for migrant workers.

Dying to keep families at home alive is not too dramatic a headline.

If people are able to engage in the moral contortionism which justifies participating in and benefitting from that exploitation then that's their own business but in my opinion it is a despicable and reprehensible thing to do.
 
The people at the bottom rarely benefit from their own exploitation. I'm unaware of any Irish people taking those jobs. If they weren't being exploited and there was a decent social infrastructure in place then the highly paid Irish would have to pay some income tax. They aren't paying any because such a social infrastructure isn't in place.
My point is that migrants traditionally move for economic reasons - to attain an income that wouldn’t be attainable at home.

Just because the paddies aren’t working at the level of World Cup stadium workers doesn’t mean it’s all sunshine and roses. Have a read of this from a few years ago to see how exposed ‘normal’ workers really are. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
 
My point is that migrants traditionally move for economic reasons - to attain an income that wouldn’t be attainable at home.

Just because the paddies aren’t working at the level of World Cup stadium workers doesn’t mean it’s all sunshine and roses. Have a read of this from a few years ago to see how exposed ‘normal’ workers really are. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
Yep, it's an appalling country where the weak and vulnerable are exploited. People from rich countries who go to work there are doing so in order to benefit from the exploitation of others.
 
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