Why (the state) bailing out housing market is a bad idea..mcwilliams indo article
- Thread starter Jethro Tull
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
think he might be trolling elsewhere instead.
think he might be trolling elsewhere instead.
Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
No to both, why should anyone get bailed out of a decision they made themselves?
No to both, why should anyone get bailed out of a decision they made themselves?
aircobra19
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
How is gambling on property not a problem of their own making?
How is gambling on property not a problem of their own making?
S
Senna
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
There was plenty of talk of a bail-out, mostly by that ****** tom parlon, but it got such an unanimous bad responce that its been blown out of the water. thank god.
There was plenty of talk of a bail-out, mostly by that ****** tom parlon, but it got such an unanimous bad responce that its been blown out of the water. thank god.
Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
Did somebody force them to take out huge mortgages?
Or was it their own decision?
Did somebody force them to take out huge mortgages?
Or was it their own decision?
leesider29
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
The latest from Tom Parlon is for banks to free up money for the retofitting of homes built pre 1990 so that they adhere to current energy efficiency standards. Their estimate is €10,000 per house and there are 900,000 pre 1990 houses.......so 9 billion euro spend in the construction sector over the next 5 to 10 years!
Of course a lot of houses post 1990 probably need this as well, but this is a story for another day.
What would be your thought on his idea??
IMHO at least he is trying and it is something that people are going to seriously have to look into anyway with the cost of energy going up and of course the environment damage caused by our energy consumption.
The latest from Tom Parlon is for banks to free up money for the retofitting of homes built pre 1990 so that they adhere to current energy efficiency standards. Their estimate is €10,000 per house and there are 900,000 pre 1990 houses.......so 9 billion euro spend in the construction sector over the next 5 to 10 years!
Of course a lot of houses post 1990 probably need this as well, but this is a story for another day.
What would be your thought on his idea??
IMHO at least he is trying and it is something that people are going to seriously have to look into anyway with the cost of energy going up and of course the environment damage caused by our energy consumption.
aircobra19
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
How about freeing up some money to install a eco friendly computer and broadband so we can pump some money into the IT sector while your at it. How about a car grant for eco friendly cars so we can pump some money into that too.
How about freeing up some money to install a eco friendly computer and broadband so we can pump some money into the IT sector while your at it. How about a car grant for eco friendly cars so we can pump some money into that too.
ubiquitous
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
So Parlon wants the government to force people to spend another €9 billion
to do up their houses even if they don't want to? How convenient for him and his members
So Parlon wants the government to force people to spend another €9 billion
to do up their houses even if they don't want to? How convenient for him and his members leesider29
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
Come off it, no one is going to do up their house if they don't want to but some incentive should be looked into if people want to do this and in the long run it saves money!
So Parlon wants the government to force people to spend another €9 billion
Come off it, no one is going to do up their house if they don't want to but some incentive should be looked into if people want to do this and in the long run it saves money!
ubiquitous
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
(posted in error)
(posted in error)
Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
Any money borrowed in order to renovate a property is eligable for Tax Relief at Source (TRS) so as far as I can see this incentive already exists.
Have I missed something?
NEWS FLASH! Tom Parlon asks Government to add 21% oxygen into air to allow general populace to breath.
Any money borrowed in order to renovate a property is eligable for Tax Relief at Source (TRS) so as far as I can see this incentive already exists.
Have I missed something?
NEWS FLASH! Tom Parlon asks Government to add 21% oxygen into air to allow general populace to breath.
Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
I suppose it depends on if you consider home buyers had a real choice in the matter.
I know the dilema young people faced. The felt compelled to buy at ongoing market rates for fear of being priced out of owning their own home forever. Thats a dilema. I bet plenty of people posting on this thread paid over the odds for their houses.
Lets say you paid 300,000 for something that went up to 600,000. Doesent mean youre the clever one. Doesent meant you avoided the mistake of the person who bought at the top. In my opinion a 50% drop in the market value still leaves your 300,000 house overvalued.
I met people 7 years ago waiting for the crash which didnt come only to jump in 5 years ago and pay more for their cautiousness. Where was their choice.
Dont call it charity...
Now who made the most money out of the boom. Theres the landowners, the builder, the banks, the solicitors,.... and most of all there's the Government. Their hand was out at every turn. I've heard it said that when every tax, by what ever name it went under, was included that every third house built goes in tax for the government. Thats 33% of the seling price.
Heres some of the taxes. .
40% tax on the profit made from rezoning development land.
13.5% Vat on building costs
Employment taxes whilst building.
9% stamp duty on site costs.
up to 9% stamp duty on house purchase
tax on the builders profits.
planning application costs.
21% vat on all building services employed (engineers, etc)
local government costs (typically nowadays around 25,000 per house)
State owned monopoly costs (eg 36,000 to reroute three telegraph poles) on a building site.
and so on.
The Government taxed the land owners profits, the builders profits, and the purchaser. But ultimately it is the last link in the chain who pays everyones tax bill - ie is the home owner who pays the entire tax bill for all.
Since the Government made 33% out of homeowners on the way up I'd say there is strong arguement for putting some of that 33% back to the homeowner if they fall in to trouble.
I wouldnt call it 'bailing out'.
I suppose it depends on if you consider home buyers had a real choice in the matter.
I know the dilema young people faced. The felt compelled to buy at ongoing market rates for fear of being priced out of owning their own home forever. Thats a dilema. I bet plenty of people posting on this thread paid over the odds for their houses.
Lets say you paid 300,000 for something that went up to 600,000. Doesent mean youre the clever one. Doesent meant you avoided the mistake of the person who bought at the top. In my opinion a 50% drop in the market value still leaves your 300,000 house overvalued.
I met people 7 years ago waiting for the crash which didnt come only to jump in 5 years ago and pay more for their cautiousness. Where was their choice.
Dont call it charity...
Now who made the most money out of the boom. Theres the landowners, the builder, the banks, the solicitors,.... and most of all there's the Government. Their hand was out at every turn. I've heard it said that when every tax, by what ever name it went under, was included that every third house built goes in tax for the government. Thats 33% of the seling price.
Heres some of the taxes. .
40% tax on the profit made from rezoning development land.
13.5% Vat on building costs
Employment taxes whilst building.
9% stamp duty on site costs.
up to 9% stamp duty on house purchase
tax on the builders profits.
planning application costs.
21% vat on all building services employed (engineers, etc)
local government costs (typically nowadays around 25,000 per house)
State owned monopoly costs (eg 36,000 to reroute three telegraph poles) on a building site.
and so on.
The Government taxed the land owners profits, the builders profits, and the purchaser. But ultimately it is the last link in the chain who pays everyones tax bill - ie is the home owner who pays the entire tax bill for all.
Since the Government made 33% out of homeowners on the way up I'd say there is strong arguement for putting some of that 33% back to the homeowner if they fall in to trouble.
I wouldnt call it 'bailing out'.
Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
They might have felt under pressure, just as many people feel under pressure to conform to certain norms in society. But forced? I think not.
Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
First things first, what you have described in the above paragraph is the choices that were open to everyone not just young people and the other choice of course was to not buy at all and rent like they do in many european countries. To say people had to jump in to the market for fear of being priced out in later years doesn't add up.
Your list is long and aimed at making the point that the govt have been reaping the rewards of the boom and they did, but costs such as tax on goods and services is applicable to all industries so should they get some money back, tax on profits is the same thing should the builders not have had to pay tax?
The fact of the matter is the construction industry created a lot of wealth and in doing so created a lot of tax for the govt coffers which has been spent (unwisely or not) on lowering income tax, new roads etc, exactly where do you think the money is that we can now afford to start refunding that tax back to homeowners?
First things first, what you have described in the above paragraph is the choices that were open to everyone not just young people and the other choice of course was to not buy at all and rent like they do in many european countries. To say people had to jump in to the market for fear of being priced out in later years doesn't add up.
To buy at any time or not to buy at all.
Your list is long and aimed at making the point that the govt have been reaping the rewards of the boom and they did, but costs such as tax on goods and services is applicable to all industries so should they get some money back, tax on profits is the same thing should the builders not have had to pay tax?
The fact of the matter is the construction industry created a lot of wealth and in doing so created a lot of tax for the govt coffers which has been spent (unwisely or not) on lowering income tax, new roads etc, exactly where do you think the money is that we can now afford to start refunding that tax back to homeowners?
leesider29
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
All I am saying is it is not too bad an idea and something that would give the smaller builders a leg up, not the big developers that are so frequently complained about. The other thing is he was talking to the banks not the government so I think it was more about them being more lenient with their lending practices at the moment.
All I am saying is it is not too bad an idea and something that would give the smaller builders a leg up, not the big developers that are so frequently complained about. The other thing is he was talking to the banks not the government so I think it was more about them being more lenient with their lending practices at the moment.
sandymount
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Re: Why bailing out housing market is a very bad idea
All big or small builders who didn't put up prices by 10% or more every year between 2002 and 2006 should be bailed out.
Oh, that's none of them. F88K THEM and F88K Tom Parlon.
All big or small builders who didn't put up prices by 10% or more every year between 2002 and 2006 should be bailed out.
Oh, that's none of them. F88K THEM and F88K Tom Parlon.