Who's not paying their fair share?

Chris said:
If pharmacists and their businesses are "price gouging" and taking the public for a ride, and profit opportunity is so high, then why is there not an ever increasing stream of more pharmacies?

There is. There has been an expansion of the numbers of outlets, as it is so profitable.


Basic economics dictates that if demand increases while supply stays the same, then prices rise. In the case of pharmacies, the state controls its numbers directly through restricting licences and applying a huge cost to the actual licence.

I don't know that the State charge for the right to have a HSE pharmacy contract? They issue the contracts, yes, but I don't think the contracts can be traded, unlike pub licences.

Pharmacists are also limited to what suppliers they use, i.e. they cannot go to a cheaper Spanish supplier.

Yes, fair enough, their wholesale cost is fixed by negotiations between the State and the suppliers.

Note that the wholesale mark-up used to be 17.65%, and that the wholesalers passed on maybe half of this mark-up as discounts to the pharmacy.

(NB: of the 3 wholesalers, some own pharmacies, some are owned by pharmacies)

Recently, the HSE decided to pay a 10% wholesale mark-up, which is still plenty, IMO.

You want to blame someone for high pharmacy prices? Blame government interference.

The new deal offers pharmacies a 5 euro fee per prescription, for the first 20,000 transactions. This is a big increase on the old fees.

In return, the DPS retail mark-up on the wholesale cost was reduced from 50% to 20%, which is reasonable, IMO.

Yet some still use the old 50% mark-up.
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The key point that I am trying to make is that many people are willing to take pay cuts, if they see prices fall.

I took two pay cuts.

But then I see pharmacists refusing to cut their massive margins.

We are all in this together. Where is their solidarity? Their massive profits must fall to more normal European levels.

Costs and prices must fall.
 
Depressing

Hi all,

First time poster here. I think today will go down in Irish history as one of the blackest days ever with the full cost of the banks. Having said that it is shown that the full bailout will be 59 billion put another 10/11 billion on to this and 70 billion will probably be the final figure. I have yet to see this government get a figure right. So if we are paying 70billion back. Thats one thing. What should be done is bondholders should be paying there share they took the risk and should lose everything but some kind of deal should be done with them.

But this is not our problem this is a once off payment and will last say 10 years. Our problem is the 20 billion a year deficit that we have and the silly croke park aggrement which means that 70% of what pay out which is wages to the public sector can not be cut. The other 30% which is used for actual services such as roads health, etc will have to be cut.

Now I would like to ask Brian Cowen 1 simple question and if he can answer this and prove that he is spending it wisely I will vote him in again in 2 years or when ever we have an election

Question is : what are my taxes used for.

I pay nearly 25% of my wage to the gov.

Now on a day to day basis I get up in the morning in my pjs -VAT

I go wash my face and brush my teeth - soap/toothpaste -VAT and water charges are set to come in

I eat my brekkie - More VAT and FAT :)

I drive to work - CAR - VAT, Road Tax, Petrol - VAT, M50 toll

I work - see above 25%

My kids go to school (wow something free here - no wait books, uniforms, trips - not really free is it)

I have an accident I call an ambulance/fire brigade there is now a charge for this. I have to pay medical costs aswell

I drink a beer more vat...

I go home depressed and think of the new property tax I will have to face in the next budget even do I have paid circa nearly 50k on stamp duty

So Mr Cowen where does this 25% of my wage go.
Its not on roads - I am paying for this
Its not on hospital or medical care -I am paying for this
Its not on food - I am paying for this
I will give you schooling - but if I can stop paying tax I would save a bundle sending my kids to private school.

I dont know guys I think that the guy in the middle, earning a middle wage is being f$%£$cked in the ass. Its so depressing and the worse thing is and I know I had a slight dig at the public sector above but it has everyone regardless of the category your in

Public sector
Unemployed
Middle the road
OAP
foreigner

Everyone is now fighting with each other an no one to date bar the truck driver who rammed the gates at leinster house no one has done anything or are we all waiting for the 1916 centernary to come around?
 
Here's an example of where some of your taxes go:

Example couple, both retired, one aged 70.

Public sector pensioner = 700 pw typical pension
OACP pensioner = 230 pw
  • They both get medical cards, even though they earn approx 1000 pw.
  • They both get free travel.
  • They will get the Household Benefit Package (free TV licence, subsidised elec and telephone)
They did not suffer any cut in pension.

They do not pay the Health levy or Income levy

They pay very little tax.
 
Protocol said:
Here's an example of where some of your taxes go:

Example couple, both retired, one aged 70.

Public sector pensioner = 700 pw typical pension
OACP pensioner = 230 pw
  • They both get medical cards, even though they earn approx 1000 pw.
  • They both get free travel.
  • They will get the Household Benefit Package (free TV licence, subsidised elec and telephone)
They did not suffer any cut in pension.

They do not pay the Health levy or Income levy

They pay very little tax.
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I agree. The one group that is definitely not paying their far share is well off pensioners. When the government tried to take the medical card from the ones earning over 1350 per week the selfish louts had the audacity and gall to protest about it. Shame on them.
 
I am a pensioner and live in the UK; I have to work part time to subsidies my state pension of £150 a week. I pay tax on my earnings and all income over 6k a year and if I got saving I pay tax on interest on that also as it is classed as income.

Free travel here is only in the borough/county that pensioners reside in and that is for buses only, which the cuts in the next couple of week will take that away also. The new collision government will be given pensioners an increase pension by changing it to wage related from next April. As it is at present I remember a couple of years ago we got 75p rise a price of a loaf of bread. Also from next year the threshold for pensioners and low earners will be going up to 10k a year before they pay tax.

We do not get free travel on trains outside the borough we live in and it is only available in some boroughs not all and where it is available there is a restriction on it that pensioners cannot travel on it before 9.30 am.

I think Ireland is very generous to pensioners unlike the UK.



Also the sick notes for people with a disability has changed and it stats on what you can do instead of what you cannot do due to a disabiliy or illness.
 
By this do you mean employed wage-earning PAYE pharmacists?

Or owner-phamacists who earn profits?


It is the excessive profit margins of the business that I am criticising, not the wages of any regular pharmacy staff.
 
Some pharmacists have also taken TWO pay cuts.

Prices of drugs have also fallen TWICE already this year (Feb and Oct).
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So?
What's your point exactly?

I'm still far better off getting medication abroad and hoping it's not confiscated by customs.
 
Do you really begrudge pensioners having a decent living ? These are the people who brought up their children pre Celtic Tiger, got measly childrens allowances & had to pay fees to put them through college, and for the most part lived fairly frugal lives. Also unlike nowadays contraception wasn't available so a lot of the children weren't even planned.
They paid horrendous taxes during the 80's. I believe they deserve any break they get now.

I actually admire them for their protest!!!
 
I actually admire them for their protest!!
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So do I.

I also admire cement truck guy, despite what the underlying circumstances for his protest might be (failed developer) At least he did something and made international news.

I don't think it's any good me sitting here letting the government do this. I'm as meek as a lamb - meanwhile the government walks all over me.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
So do I.

I also admire cement truck guy, despite what the underlying circumstances for his protest might be (failed developer) At least he did something and made international news.

I don't think it's any good me sitting here letting the government do this. I'm as meek as a lamb - meanwhile the government walks all over me.
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I agree.
 
Do you really begrudge pensioners having a decent living ?
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No, however I think priority should be given to the young, not trying to sound heartless but the young are the future while the old are the past. Any money available should be invested in education and special needs in schools.
 
Perplexed said:
Do you really begrudge pensioners having a decent living ?
I actually admire them for their protest!!!
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No, and I would not cut the OACP.

However, I do begrudge pensioners earning 750pw paying 0% income tax, when everybody else has taken a pay cut, or tax rise, or both.

I also begrudge pensioners over 70 getting the Household Benefits package (free TV licence, subsidised elec and telecom) even though they have high incomes.

Example: Garret Fitzgerald qualifies for the Household Benefits package, as do all sitting and retires TDs aged over 70. This is even though they may earn 100-200k.
 
Perhaps the Benefits package should be means tested.
I had in mind your average pensioner, who contributed to a pension scheme, as well as PRSI.
I don't think that one size fits all.
It's the same with the Childrens Allowance etc. I see no reason why this shouldn't be means tested either.
 
Perplexed said:
Perhaps the Benefits package should be means tested.
I had in mind your average pensioner, who contributed to a pension scheme, as well as PRSI.
I don't think that one size fits all.
It's the same with the Childrens Allowance etc. I see no reason why this shouldn't be means tested either.
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The pensioners who protested outside the Dail were the ones earning over €1340 a week who didn't think they should pay their already sibsidised (community rated) health insurance of around €25 a week and for their GP visits. basically a bunch of selfish rich people looking to keep their hand-outs.
 
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