Who's not paying their fair share?

C

csirl

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Dont want to debate whether or not we should pay to bail out banks as this is debated eslewhere - for the record, I dont agree with bailing out Anglo. Just want to

Lets assume that the banking crisis is going to cost us €50bn - which is higher than the figures in the mid 30s being bandied around right now.

With a population of 4.25m, this equates to €11,764 per capita.

Paid over a 10 year period, it equates to €1,176.4 per annum or €22.62 per week.


I, for one, am paying multiples of this amount in additional taxation/levies. So is my wife. So we are paying more than our fair share.

Yes, this is a per capita figure, so it includes non-earners. We have 2 young children. Each has lost c.€24 per week in lost early childcare suppliment and reductions in child benefit. So my 2 young children, who have no earnings, and werent alive when the debts were run up, are also paying more than their fair share.

And remember, we've also suffered through cutbacks in Government services and additional stealth taxes. And doesnt include cutbacks and tax rises to come over the next couple of years.

So, who's not paying? If the "average" family is paying multiples of its quota, then it follows that the majority of the population must be paying little or nothing. Why?
 
For example: public sector pensioners.

(1) No pension cut, unlike their fellow workers.


(2) No income levy if they have a med card (most do)
"Exempt Categories:

  • Where an individual's income for a year does not exceed €15,028 p.a.
  • Individuals aged 65 or over whose annual income does not exceed €20,000 p.a.
  • Full medical card holders
  • Social Welfare payments are also excluded from the income levy
(3) No health levy:


"A number of groups do not have to pay the Health Levy:
  • Everyone aged 70 or over
  • Medical Card holders (including those who have Medical Cards exclusively because of EU regulations or because they are aged 70 or over)
  • People who are getting Widow's/Widower's Pension, a One-Parent Family Payment or Deserted Wife's Allowance from the Department of Social and Family Affairs or a widow's pension from an EU country
(4) No income tax if you earn under 40k as a couple (770pw).


I know plenty of them. They are not affected by the recession / fiscal crisis, and have plenty of income. Many don't know what to do with all the income they get.
 
Next group: medical consultants


Yes, they do pay the income levy and the increased health levy, ok.

And, yes, they have trained for a long time, and they have overheads to pay.

But their fees are so high (I've hear stories of 120-180 for 5-10 mins) that they amass huge incomes and wealth.

I would train 500 extra doctors pa, and flood the country with extra doctors, so as to keep a lid on fees.
 
Next groups: commercial landlords

Many landlords are reasonable and flexible.

But some, esp institutional landlords, still charge huge rents.

Excessive commercial rents are a contributory factor in our recession.
 
Next: some semi-state companies / workers


(1) No pay cut, unlike the public service.

(2) No pension levy


I am thinking here of the likes of ESB staff
 
Next: barristers / sols

The strange thing here is that even though there are many unemployed sols, some legal fees are still way too high (but things have improved)

We are some fools paying 2250-2500 per day for the tribunal counsel


All over AAM there are cases of probate fees of 10k, etc. MADNESS
 
Protocol said:
I would train 500 extra doctors pa, and flood the country with extra doctors, so as to keep a lid on fees.
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This is an excellent idea. There should be no cap on the amount of doctors that can practice as consultants as long as they have the qualification. This will flood the market with supply of consultants if the profits available are as high as they seem to be.
 
One of the winners from the boom / bubble were landowners who sold.

Example: farmers / landowners who made millions from CPOs on new roads.

Example: Ennis bypass land costs = 37m, made several millionaires

The State should pay 5k per acre tops.
 
Good post csirl. I'm in the same boat; we have 4 kids so that's €135.72 per week extra we should be paying. We are paying far more than that extra.

The government needs to get more people into the tax net, especially the old and those on lower incomes.
I went onto the highest income tax band as a third year apprentice. If I was a third year apprentice now I'd pay no tax. There's a middle ground there and we've missed it.

I also agree with the point about doctors; there are all sorts of barriers to entry for everyone from GP’s to consultants. GP’s should be required to do simple surgical procedures, stitching and scanning etc, like they do in most other countries, rather than charging €50-€65 to behave like a glorified nurse that can write a prescription.
 
Purple said:
I also agree with the point about doctors; there are all sorts of barriers to entry for everyone from GP’s to consultants. GP’s should be required to do simple surgical procedures, stitching and scanning etc, like they do in most other countries, rather than charging €50-€65 to behave like a glorified nurse that can write a prescription.
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Had a fight with the missus ? ;)

Definately doctors/gp's fees are very high and none in my locality have reduced since the recession

Pensioners definately are not paying their fair share given they probably have more disposable income (no mortgage,childcare fees etc) than most with young kids.

Long term unemployed - those who have never worked at all should not get the same benefits as newly unemployed who have stamps accrued.
 
fobs said:
Definately doctors/gp's fees are very high and none in my locality have reduced since the recession

I heard of one case of GP fees going from 55 to 50.

I had cause to call a doctor to a city centre hotel in a large continental city recently.

Fri at noon - came within an hour = 45 euro

Sat at night - came within an hour approx = 60 euro

Pensioners definately are not paying their fair share given they probably have more disposable income (no mortgage,childcare fees etc) than most with young kids.

I would particularly focus on public sector pensioners, not people who depend solely on the State pension.

Long term unemployed - those who have never worked at all should not get the same benefits as newly unemployed who have stamps accrued.

Yes, I think JSB should actually be increased, for the first 6-9 months, then same as now for another 6 months tops.

JSA should have a time-limit.
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..
 
Paying 'fair share' for what exactly?
Where are all these billions ending up?

That's the question I ask myself.

I also wonder why TDs have unvouched 'expenses'.
 
fobs said:
Definately doctors/gp's fees are very high and none in my locality have reduced since the recession
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My Gps standard fee is 60 euro. I was there last week and she only charged me 40 euro. When I queried it she said that it was because I had only been in recently (for a different problem) so she didnt think it was fair to charge me full whack.

Oh and Im not terribly sickly - I hadnt been all year and just happened to get a minor but painful injury followed by a common ailment in a 2 week period.
 
I agree with the OP that some of us are paying much more than others for the hole in the countries finances, but I disagree with these figures

"Lets assume that the banking crisis is going to cost us €50bn - which is higher than the figures in the mid 30s being bandied around right now.

With a population of 4.25m, this equates to €11,764 per capita.

Paid over a 10 year period, it equates to €1,176.4 per annum or €22.62 per week."

A lot of the increase in taxes/levies is to pay for the large gap in Irelands day to day balance sheet and has nothing to do with the bank bailout.

Also, a lot of the cost has been borrowed, so we will not be paying back the capaital,
just the interest, so the figure above of what the "average cost" per person is not correct.

I dont know what the correct figure is though - problem is no-one does.

THe one answer that is correct is " higher than the government think it is
 
Time said:
It is time to make pensioners pay. If pensions are not cut in the next budget I am leaving the country and all my debts behind.
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I think that pensioners should pay if their levels of income including pensions are above a certain level. In the UK pensions are very low especially for women and they have to apply for pension credit to bring their income up to the minimum wage. If they work after they retired of 60/65 in order to bring their level of income up to a minimum standard then they will pay tax on their income from employer minus NI and also their pensions are taking into account plus interest from savings as wel for tax reasons.

Pensioners get free travel, but only on busses in the UK, they can travel on trains only in areas after 9.30am. This is good for pensions as they would not be able to get out and about if their income was at minimum standard. Some pensioners are very reluctant to ask for help as it is not in their nature to go cap in hand to the state, also they may not be aware of what is available for them by way of help either as most of them are not computer literate. That is why so much is saved by the state becaues most pensioners are living at and some below minimum wage standard compared to the rest of the country.

Also it must be remembered that pensions have worked all their lives and rared brought up a large family (unlike todays families of 2. 3 children) and have paid their dues to the state and as such should be allowed a reasonable standard of living when they retired that is if they are not financially well off. Also it is inevitable that pensioners will suffer from age related condition, which is not a life style choice unlike having children is nowadays. Also pensioners may have to go into care homes, which is not cheape and that is another unhappy chapter at the end of their lives. :mad:
 
The self employed who do evade tax by the truck load.
The higher paid in the public service whose pay was returned as bonus add ons.
 
paying childrens allowances to people who can afford not to take it
and to little feckers outside the state(grrrrrr)
 
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