I agree zztop that cannot be good for the contry also the same applies to pensioners paying for their free travel and other standard payments that they can afford not to take it, also the same applies to other standard benefits paid out to people do not beed it or take it. What happens to that money does it go back into the government purse.
Who's not paying their fair share?
- Thread starter csirl
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Claire1956
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Here is an example of how some are taking a slice of the funds:
Chap in our office. We are offering him a full time job, €10/hour 39 hours a week. He has been on benefits for the past two years. He told us he loved Ire, nowhere else could he have an income of circa €400/week for doing nothing (includes his wife benefits, rent allowance etc.)
He was actually just back from a holiday in Ibiza, it was very hot he told us, 40 degrees.
Anyway, my husband said, so Martin are you looking for full time work as we need someone.
The answer was, no, not at all. Am heading home.
So husband said to do what
Answer was, 'My brother and I have a fleet of eight tour buses in our company at home and it is starting to grow now, so I am going back to that.'
Husband says, oh you have your own company?
Yes, yes it has been running for a few years now and really going well
Husband says, best of luck Martin, cheerio!
So our conclusion is that he has been living off our state for two years (this we know factually because we have used him on and off for a few hours here and there) while in ownership of company that is going well.
Don't lecture me about hiring for cash. No-one will come off benefits for a basic wage of €8.65 for a 39 hour week. I have spoken to all of the elected FF TDs in our constituency about this, small businesses cannot hire staff because the govt is paying more for folks to do nothing.........
Our sales have dropped 30% over the last 4 months. We have not had any cuts in staff wages. We wish to reduce our costs however one of the key cost of sale items has gone up by 15% this month. But everyone wants products on the shop shelves to get cheaper everyday. What do we do, we go out and try to get more customers and explain the product etc. blah blah
Wake up, the 400,000 on benefits are a huge cost to the country. The public servants on average do not appear to be productive, they might be very busy and overworked, but productive, not at all.........look at the HSE and the waiting lists.
As for middle management in Ireland (public and private), complete wasters. Only 36 months ago how many folks were having expensed trips/lunches as a regular feature in their daily schedule........Dublin restaurants were packed, couldn't get a seat at lunch time.
We are all contributors to this mess. I know lots of folks are going to slate me for my opinions, but I feel entitled to them, the VAT man and the P30 chap get paid on time everytime, as do our staff and our suppliers. I am not sitting at home thinking how can I screw the system for little more, or that it is not worth my while to work cos the benefits are so good. But it does appear that the psyche of the irish is just that! Thats where you missing funds are being swallowed-up!
Chap in our office. We are offering him a full time job, €10/hour 39 hours a week. He has been on benefits for the past two years. He told us he loved Ire, nowhere else could he have an income of circa €400/week for doing nothing (includes his wife benefits, rent allowance etc.)
He was actually just back from a holiday in Ibiza, it was very hot he told us, 40 degrees.
Anyway, my husband said, so Martin are you looking for full time work as we need someone.
The answer was, no, not at all. Am heading home.
So husband said to do what
Answer was, 'My brother and I have a fleet of eight tour buses in our company at home and it is starting to grow now, so I am going back to that.'
Husband says, oh you have your own company?
Yes, yes it has been running for a few years now and really going well
Husband says, best of luck Martin, cheerio!
So our conclusion is that he has been living off our state for two years (this we know factually because we have used him on and off for a few hours here and there) while in ownership of company that is going well.
Don't lecture me about hiring for cash. No-one will come off benefits for a basic wage of €8.65 for a 39 hour week. I have spoken to all of the elected FF TDs in our constituency about this, small businesses cannot hire staff because the govt is paying more for folks to do nothing.........
Our sales have dropped 30% over the last 4 months. We have not had any cuts in staff wages. We wish to reduce our costs however one of the key cost of sale items has gone up by 15% this month. But everyone wants products on the shop shelves to get cheaper everyday. What do we do, we go out and try to get more customers and explain the product etc. blah blah
Wake up, the 400,000 on benefits are a huge cost to the country. The public servants on average do not appear to be productive, they might be very busy and overworked, but productive, not at all.........look at the HSE and the waiting lists.
As for middle management in Ireland (public and private), complete wasters. Only 36 months ago how many folks were having expensed trips/lunches as a regular feature in their daily schedule........Dublin restaurants were packed, couldn't get a seat at lunch time.
We are all contributors to this mess. I know lots of folks are going to slate me for my opinions, but I feel entitled to them, the VAT man and the P30 chap get paid on time everytime, as do our staff and our suppliers. I am not sitting at home thinking how can I screw the system for little more, or that it is not worth my while to work cos the benefits are so good. But it does appear that the psyche of the irish is just that! Thats where you missing funds are being swallowed-up!
Well I think this one caps it all hope the link work belwo this person is being £2000 a week on Housing Benefit and before that he was getting £900 a week benefit but did not want to stay there as it was in a poor arera. He moved to a poser area and his benefit for housing is now £2000 a week.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-complaining-5-bed-London-home-poor-area.html
The new government in power since May is changing the Housing Benefit and there will be a cap at £400 a week.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-complaining-5-bed-London-home-poor-area.html
The new government in power since May is changing the Housing Benefit and there will be a cap at £400 a week.
One issue is that everyone perceives that they are paying their fair share, and others are not. Those on social welfare perceive the "fat cats getting away with it" whilst they struggle, the fat cats perceive the poor/those on social welfare as spongers and those in the middle might believe both to be true.
The issue is compounded by the fact that the more money people have, the more they will spend. It's easy to say cut child benifit for those with high wages, but those with high wages often have bigger mortgages or spend more money in the economy. Hence there is a need for a balancing act between cutting govt spending/raising more taxes and not pulling the rug out from under whatever weak recovery is underway.
Some people here have also suggested examples of scrounging social welfare recipiants screwing the system. Those need to be dealt with on an individual basis and should not be used as a reason for inflicting further misery on the majority, who do not want to be on the dole in the first place.
The original question was "who's not paying their fair share". Perhaps a more realistic question is , who can afford to pay more?
The issue is compounded by the fact that the more money people have, the more they will spend. It's easy to say cut child benifit for those with high wages, but those with high wages often have bigger mortgages or spend more money in the economy. Hence there is a need for a balancing act between cutting govt spending/raising more taxes and not pulling the rug out from under whatever weak recovery is underway.
Some people here have also suggested examples of scrounging social welfare recipiants screwing the system. Those need to be dealt with on an individual basis and should not be used as a reason for inflicting further misery on the majority, who do not want to be on the dole in the first place.
The original question was "who's not paying their fair share". Perhaps a more realistic question is , who can afford to pay more?
Claire1956
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Competely correct....Mpsox:
Can I afford to raise my kids without Child Benefit, bottom line is yes I can. This year I received money into my account for the children and it was the same as a mortgage payment. That is crazy. We received mortgage interest relief, which was great and well allocated since,but it was a mad amount of money and I was living without it. I don't want to pay more tax, but I don't need the funds in the two areas above, and if many people thought about it truthfully, they don't either!! My salary is €50k gross and is my husbands, so nothing outrageous there and we didn't inherit our home or have any shortcuts. We are an average example of mid 30- mid 40 couple with kids.
But it does come back to the attitude of lets not pay our way. I was at a social event this weekend and the amount of conversation re folks not paying mortgage because of the govt thing re no legal attack from banks for 12 months was staggering. People doing it for the heck of it cos they can.......madness
Can I afford to raise my kids without Child Benefit, bottom line is yes I can. This year I received money into my account for the children and it was the same as a mortgage payment. That is crazy. We received mortgage interest relief, which was great and well allocated since,but it was a mad amount of money and I was living without it. I don't want to pay more tax, but I don't need the funds in the two areas above, and if many people thought about it truthfully, they don't either!! My salary is €50k gross and is my husbands, so nothing outrageous there and we didn't inherit our home or have any shortcuts. We are an average example of mid 30- mid 40 couple with kids.
But it does come back to the attitude of lets not pay our way. I was at a social event this weekend and the amount of conversation re folks not paying mortgage because of the govt thing re no legal attack from banks for 12 months was staggering. People doing it for the heck of it cos they can.......madness
I agree with csirl and purple. I'd really like to see the golden oldies with generous pensions and benefit packages, and people paying no tax contribute properly in the next budget. I think there is huge scope to improve the 3Bn required through doing this.
I just calculated our tax contribution as a family of 4 (after tax reliefs back) is 19% of income. We then also have mortgage and childcare- another 42%. Another 13% on Transport and state controlled ESB/Gas. Thats a neat 75% of income on essential bills.
I'd love to see a similar breakdown for pensioners most of whom have moderate tax, decent home benefits package and no home/childcare bills. I'd also love to see some of the generous RA and other schemes made more difficult say for example if you've been on benefits your whole life.
On a separate note, a larger DIRT range on high level savings perhaps?
I just calculated our tax contribution as a family of 4 (after tax reliefs back) is 19% of income. We then also have mortgage and childcare- another 42%. Another 13% on Transport and state controlled ESB/Gas. Thats a neat 75% of income on essential bills.
I'd love to see a similar breakdown for pensioners most of whom have moderate tax, decent home benefits package and no home/childcare bills. I'd also love to see some of the generous RA and other schemes made more difficult say for example if you've been on benefits your whole life.
On a separate note, a larger DIRT range on high level savings perhaps?
Oh yes, those senior civil servants who argued to consider their bonus as base pay.
The cheek of them.
They should have taken the pay cut like the other public servants.
I have wondered before whether having just one flat rate of tax on all income would be easier to administer.
For example, everyone pays 15% of all their income in tax. Therefore if the government ever needs to increase tax intake it would be simplier to do. And if people receive a pay rise they would not lose over half of it in income tax.
I just checked my pay slip. I would be considered a middle income earner and my income levy, prsi and paye represents 16% of my gross pay.
For example, everyone pays 15% of all their income in tax. Therefore if the government ever needs to increase tax intake it would be simplier to do. And if people receive a pay rise they would not lose over half of it in income tax.
I just checked my pay slip. I would be considered a middle income earner and my income levy, prsi and paye represents 16% of my gross pay.
I think what happens in other countries does have a bearing on how each county deals with their deficit, which is not good at present in any countries. All courtiers are making cuts as well as the UK and other EU countries. Considering that a great many people from the Irish Republic living the in the UK and has family in Ireland it is in their interest also that the deficit is dealt with fairly.
Perhaps you want Ireland to be isolated from others people comments regardless of where they reside. It is no body interest that any country in made bankrupt as we all rely on each and everyone comments are valued.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_migration_to_Great_Britain#Irish_in_England
Nobody want child benefit cuts to the middle and low income it is the upper class that does not even want it and used it for other reason that they children. The same goes for all other benefits that made universally to people regardless whether they need them or not.
T McGibney
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The flat tax model certainly works well for Corporation Tax in this country.
You obviously did not registered for your vote where you lived in the UJ otherwise you would have been able to vote.
The point I was trying to make is how unfair it is when it comes to getting benefits and UK as well as Ireland is looking to cuts benefits. It seems that when people have large families nowadays they have no problems getting benefits, despite the benefactors not paying any tax or insurance towards it. The tax payer has been forking out £900 a week for accommodation for the person in the link however that was not enough as areas was not posh enough therefore hardworking people had to pay a further £1.100 extra so that person could move to a more salubrious area of the city.
I do not agree with benefits being cut for the disable and people who have lost their jobs with a family to provide for and has to put food on the table. That would be totally unfair.
Young people should not be left at home just waiting for benefits either. If they cannot find work then they should be made to voluntary work in the community for any benefits received.
A poster on here said that if cuts were not made to pensioners then they would leave the country. Now I am a pensioner and still have to work to supplement my pension. I have always works and not complaining that I am still able to work thank god.
I am not complaining about working, as work is good for people and especially now that I am pensioner and lot of my friends and family are not around anymore. Working part-time also helps me to keep in touch with reality.
I remember as back in the 70’s family allowance, as it was called then, was only ten shillings a week, which is equivalent to 50p today. This was view as very good back then.
My mother and father did not have any family allowance indeed there was no benefit for them whatsoever, we were very poor indeed no inside facilities, it was a tin bath in front of fire every couple of weeks. That was how it was like for most back then in Ireland. I grew up knowing that we would not get anything free without working for it.
Compared with to today’s generation, every thing seems to hinged on how much benefits they can get and they expect regardless whether it has been worked for or not.
OK, Just to delve a little further.
The low paid: A couple on min wage 8.65 for 39hrs a week earns 35,084 and pays 2% tax in levies of 702.
We earn > twice that but our tax contribution is almost 10 times at 19%and we're middle income? Surely this group should pay a little more than this? When I started work I recall paying more tax than that, but could still manage ok.
Any Irish based pensioners out there bold enough to give us their comparisons?
The low paid: A couple on min wage 8.65 for 39hrs a week earns 35,084 and pays 2% tax in levies of 702.
We earn > twice that but our tax contribution is almost 10 times at 19%and we're middle income? Surely this group should pay a little more than this? When I started work I recall paying more tax than that, but could still manage ok.
Any Irish based pensioners out there bold enough to give us their comparisons?
I would have like a vote in Ireland also , indeed, I expect that there are many Irish people living in the UK would like there vote in Ireland.
Pensioners in the North (part that is colonised by the UK) are allowed to travel free down to the South but not pensioners in the rest of the UK that hold an Irish passport, wonder why the disparity!
Pensioners in the North (part that is colonised by the UK) are allowed to travel free down to the South but not pensioners in the rest of the UK that hold an Irish passport, wonder why the disparity!
Mine amounts to roughly 20.5%. Would that be because of me being single maybe?
Had a fight with the missus ?
Nope, I just call it as I see it.
This country has a fiscal deficit as well as a banking crisis, you have managed to completely ignore the most important one. They can not be dealt with seperately.
The fiscal deficit is 20billion PER ANUM, your cuts in income and benifits and levies are trying to address the fiscal deficit.
The banking bailout is going to cost 39 billion give or take a few billion, That money will be borrowed and the repayments will increase the burden on the exchequer therefore also increasing the amount of taxation that will have to be raised.
The fiscal deficit is by far the greater issue.
To try and give a basic annalogy.
I earn €30,000 but my outgoings are €50,000. I also have discovered that my wife has been very naughty and run up her credit card to €50,000. (lots of shoes)
I am desperately trying to cut my outgoings to bring the figure down towards the €30,000 income while at the same time I am trying to increase my income(this is the fiscal deficit). I am also having to bailout my wifes credit card debt and fund the repayments of that(bank bailout).
This thread is looking at the cuts being made to bridge the gap between income and expenditure and confusing it with the repayments being arranged for the finance of the bank bailout.
Society can not be based on the individual, it must allow for the collective. We have, weather we like it or not, a collective financial issue, the burden of this will not be shared equally just as the benifits of a good economy are not shared equally.
Suck it up bud, and get used to it theres more to come.
The fiscal deficit is 20billion PER ANUM, your cuts in income and benifits and levies are trying to address the fiscal deficit.
The banking bailout is going to cost 39 billion give or take a few billion, That money will be borrowed and the repayments will increase the burden on the exchequer therefore also increasing the amount of taxation that will have to be raised.
The fiscal deficit is by far the greater issue.
To try and give a basic annalogy.
I earn €30,000 but my outgoings are €50,000. I also have discovered that my wife has been very naughty and run up her credit card to €50,000. (lots of shoes)
I am desperately trying to cut my outgoings to bring the figure down towards the €30,000 income while at the same time I am trying to increase my income(this is the fiscal deficit). I am also having to bailout my wifes credit card debt and fund the repayments of that(bank bailout).
This thread is looking at the cuts being made to bridge the gap between income and expenditure and confusing it with the repayments being arranged for the finance of the bank bailout.
Society can not be based on the individual, it must allow for the collective. We have, weather we like it or not, a collective financial issue, the burden of this will not be shared equally just as the benifits of a good economy are not shared equally.
Suck it up bud, and get used to it theres more to come.
Complainer
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WHo's not paying their fair share?
The Morketing folk over at EBS who (after getting a massive State bailout) still have the money to sponsor 2FM to run a roadshow about 'savings'. Must be nice to still be able to spend our money.
The Morketing folk over at EBS who (after getting a massive State bailout) still have the money to sponsor 2FM to run a roadshow about 'savings'. Must be nice to still be able to spend our money.