Teachers/Free classes
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Y'know, I think you might be onto something there, Liaconn....
Only too true Lex & Liaconn - the amount of begrudery particularly surrounding the issue of teacher's holidays never fails to surprise me particularly as the school year is set by the Dept. Of Education.
Lex Foutish
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I think people can make their own minds up on that, from reading some of your posts.
A large number of them are very lacking in balance, IMHO.
Nothing childish about it. There are a lot of people who just seem to resent the fact that teachers have long holidays and shorter hours than them, regardless of the reason.
+1 to that.
Where was all the begrudgery when the tiger was in full roar and those in the private sector were earning a mint. Short memories i'm afraid
Teachers have taken enough of a cut, at least 20%, and more to come if the right wingers get their chance!!
Where was all the begrudgery when the tiger was in full roar and those in the private sector were earning a mint. Short memories i'm afraid
Teachers have taken enough of a cut, at least 20%, and more to come if the right wingers get their chance!!
I’ve been giving out about them for years
The issue isn’t whether teachers are overpaid, the issue is whether we as a state can afford the total wage bill and if the total fund available for wages would be better spent paying more teachers less in order to reduce class sizes. The other question is whether a smaller proportion of the overall education budget should be spent on pay and more should be spent on infrastructure. I know it’s really obvious but some people still don’t see that spending more on pay means there is less for infrastructure (capital spending).
I do have a problem with people who fail to see that link; those who agitate for increases in pay and then complain about school conditions, classroom sizes and bad school environments.
That's a fair enough argument Purple. What irritates me is people coming on here saying 'oh the teacher down the road is on another holiday, bloody teachers, rant, rant' with no sound basis to their argument, just that teachers shouldn't have so many holidays or finish up at 3 o clock or some such, when that is actually part and parcel of the job.
I agree. If it was that good we'd all be teachers.
Oh well if it irritates you ,we had better not right any perceived wrong..
In my opinion ,just because its part of the job ,that does not make it right..
If it irritated you that people complained about TDs salarys and hours etc,do you think that we should not voice this as well,/is reason enough for it to be justified?
If the teachers were in the private sector,I would have the exact same issue with them.
Though as usual, some posters try to turn it into a PS v private,in the hope that it will be viewed as bashing and closed..and in fairness ,usually succeed.
However anytime anyone of you who consider tackling teachers hours/pay/conditions to be unfair,bear in mind that these things are changing..WHY?
No one's turning it into a Private v Public sector debate Thedaras. You seem to be irate at teachers' hours for no particular reason except that they are better than your's. Schools are open between nine am and mid afternoon and close for the Summer and for Mid Term breaks. This was not a deal negotiated by teachers, it is the agreed schedule for school opening hours. If you would like your children to be in school from 9 - 5.30 and to get 4 weeks holiday a year then fine, come on here and say that. Otherwise you are not being logical.
Also, people who say teachers pay should be reduced because of their shorter hours would no doubt be the first people coming on here complaining that their kids' teachers are coming into work exhausted because they're working in pubs and supermarkets at night time to pay their mortgages and bills.
Also, people who say teachers pay should be reduced because of their shorter hours would no doubt be the first people coming on here complaining that their kids' teachers are coming into work exhausted because they're working in pubs and supermarkets at night time to pay their mortgages and bills.
My sister in law is a teacher. She said that 20 years ago she worked a longer year but isn't sure how much longer. Does anyone have any info on this?
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Well that's fine. You have a problem with the school year as set by the Dept of Education. But that's not the teachers' decision so giving out about 'their' holidays, 'short days' etc as if they've pulled a fast one, instead of saying you think children should spend more time in school, is skewing your argument and making it sound a bit childish and begruding.
For what it's worth, I agree that Summer holidays at secondary level should be shortened to 6-8 weeks because I don't think it's particularly productive for teenagers to be hanging around for 3 months at a time. But if the schools currently close for June July and August (don't know where you got May from) you can't blame the teachers for being happy with that. Wouldn't you be in their position? Where there would be a valid argument would be where they took to the streets protesting if a longer school year was introduced by Dept of Education.
For what it's worth, I agree that Summer holidays at secondary level should be shortened to 6-8 weeks because I don't think it's particularly productive for teenagers to be hanging around for 3 months at a time. But if the schools currently close for June July and August (don't know where you got May from) you can't blame the teachers for being happy with that. Wouldn't you be in their position? Where there would be a valid argument would be where they took to the streets protesting if a longer school year was introduced by Dept of Education.
At least now most people here are singing from the same hymn sheet.
People may indeed have difficulties with the standardised school year and hours but as Thedaras has pointed out teachers are blameless in this regard as the terms and conditions of teachers are set out by the Department of Education.
The standardised school was introduced in 2004 under "sustaining progress " in consultation between the Dept. , School representatives , teachers unions and parent organisations with periodic reviews , the next of which is to take place at Easter.
It appears however that their is no desire amongst the above parties to extend either the school year or hours ( the Croke Park Agreement does include an extra hour weekly " on site " , however it appears that this additional hour will be spent outside the classroom as there is no demand for further class facing time )
People may indeed have difficulties with the standardised school year and hours but as Thedaras has pointed out teachers are blameless in this regard as the terms and conditions of teachers are set out by the Department of Education.
The standardised school was introduced in 2004 under "sustaining progress " in consultation between the Dept. , School representatives , teachers unions and parent organisations with periodic reviews , the next of which is to take place at Easter.
It appears however that their is no desire amongst the above parties to extend either the school year or hours ( the Croke Park Agreement does include an extra hour weekly " on site " , however it appears that this additional hour will be spent outside the classroom as there is no demand for further class facing time )
Blameless and not their fault are two different things.
The teachers and the unions, themselves are the very ones who complain the loudest when it comes to changing ANY of the terms set down by the department.
So in my opinion they are not blameless!
Has the Department proposed cutting short school holidays or lengthening the school day? I think personally that the school day is long enough for kids, considering most of them also have to do homework and study in the evenings. I also think primary school holidays are appropriate for young children and they shouldn't be cooped up in school for 48 weeks of the year. The only change I think would be appropriate would be to shorten secondary school summer holidays which are ridiculously long (although that may be because the schools are needed for junior and leaving cert exams).
I don't think teachers should be obliged to provide after school care for working parents, or anything like that. That is not their job and not what they trained to do.
As far as I know, primary teachers do have to work extra hours under the croke park agreement. I'm not sure what they will be doing though that won't involve keeping kids in school longer as well.
Slightly OT, but I think that the 3 month holidays are a good thing, if there was a change then maybe an extra project could be incorporated into the summer holiday period, like a light social study just to keep brains ticking over, but either way I think it is better for kids to be free from uniforms and a regular 9-4 mon-fri environment as much as possible.