People who don't realise how good they have it: ATC Vs DAA dispute.

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Niallers said:
There is no need to take any other view than a simplistic one. 99% of industrial action can be brought back to one thing. Money. These people are just being greedy.
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3 of my friends lost their jobs in the past week. 2 of them were the only earners in their household. Pretty shocking to be honest. Starting to agree with Niallers...Industrial action like this is pure greed.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

There is no need to take any other view than a simplistic one. 99% of industrial action can be brought back to one thing. Money. These people are just being greedy.
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I, too, agree with this.
Not only are they greedy but also short sighted. Their actions are helping to destroy the economy. Each business that closes down is yet another nail in the coffin.
Who is going to pay them?
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

If you'll notice my post didnt mention the remuneration of ATCs - just that Niallers and umop appear to have a stunningly simplistic and myopic view of the world......there is no middle ground with these two!

Therefore I would be willing to wager my house on it that they wouldnt get within an asses roar of the job even if they were willing to do it for free. To do a job where hundreds of peoples lives are at risk requires balance, a level head, ability to weigh options up......plus loads of other specialist requirements mentioned by previous posters.

As I said before I think they are WUMs - for god sake Niallers got the conversation going by dobbing in a few of his mates! In fact I wouldnt be surprised if they are one and the same person.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Would you care to elaborate on why this industrial action is taking place since you have such a deep world understanding of the issues.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I've nothing else to add to this, and I'm certainly not going to be drawn into an argument as to whether I'm myopic, schizophrenic, or would make a good ATC or not.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Would you care to elaborate on why this industrial action is taking place since you have such a deep world understanding of the issues.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Niallers said:
People in the Public sector should understand that in return for stable life long employment that certain things are expected of them apart from doing the job in which they're paid to do and that is continuity of service. Striking in the public sector should lead to losing your Job in my opinion. A country cannot be held to ranson by a greedy group of people.
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Going by this logic, working in the public sector you basically have to take everything without any recourse. If that was the case the budget deficit could be almost halved by reducing the PS wage bill by 50%.
Take it or lose your job!
Very well thought out statement.

BTW, if this dispute is just about a 6% payrise I don't agree with it.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Sunny said:
It is a judgement on Ireland if we are to go down the same road as those Countries and have massive industrial unrest that closes down our airports with 24 hours notice especially since we are an Island. Ireland is in competition with other Countries just like any company has to compete and moves like this reflect very badly on us. France and Italy are large enough and important enough to get away with things that we can't.
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Yep, thats whats coming.360k public servants are not all fools.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

brigade said:
Going by this logic, working in the public sector you basically have to take everything without any recourse. If that was the case the budget deficit could be almost halved by reducing the PS wage bill by 50%.
Take it or lose your job!
Very well thought out statement.

BTW, if this dispute is just about a 6% payrise I don't agree with it.
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Take everything! You make it sound like they work for low pay and have dreadful conditions.

That's the gig. The good pay, good benefits, good conditions and job for life should be the trade off.
If people in the public service sector don't like it they should move to the private sector.

"We cannot compare labor-management relations in the private sector with government. Government cannot close down the assembly line. It has to provide without interruption the protective services which are government's reason for being" Ronald Reagan
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Since when did Ronald Reagan become so popular? Just waiting for the Maggie Thatcher quotes now.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

gunnerfitzy said:
May I remind everyone that IAA employees are not public servants. The IAA is a semi-state body. Public servants are subject to the Pension levy and the recent pay cut. Employees of semi-state bodies are not.
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Bump because I think this became lost in the bickering.

For a good overview of the dispute (it goes back a while) there's a summary in the [broken link removed](begins page 13).

Couple of other things struck me.
Annual after tax profit for IAA = €12m
Annual traffic numbers through Irish airspace = 10m (I'm not sure whether that's people or what).
CEO received 10% Pay cut at end of 2008, but also had €81K (down from €90K) added to his pension as well as bonus of €62K.
A pay freeze was introduced for a year. Those 12 months were up at the end of 2009.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Sunny said:
Since when did Ronald Reagan become so popular? Just waiting for the Maggie Thatcher quotes now.
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Since he dealth with an ATC strike in the US in 1981. He gave them an ultimatum to go back to work within 48 hours or lose their job. He sacked 11,345 of them. No one group of people should be allowed to harm a country.

The air traffic controllers in this case are harming the country for their own greed.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Latrade said:
Whether or I think the pay of ACC is excessive (I do), they've disagreed with the current offer (which we haven't had full detail of only the one aspect of the pensions really) and have taken the correct route of the LRC. They haven't immediately walked out, they've engaged in the appropriate and proper resolution process.
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I thought they stopped working in protest. Given their critical nature of their job and the risk to lives that you mention, is this engaging in the "appropriate and proper resolution process"?
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

WarrenBuffet said:
If you'll notice my post didnt mention the remuneration of ATCs - just that Niallers and umop appear to have a stunningly simplistic and myopic view of the world......there is no middle ground with these two!

Therefore I would be willing to wager my house on it that they wouldnt get within an asses roar of the job even if they were willing to do it for free. To do a job where hundreds of peoples lives are at risk requires balance, a level head, ability to weigh options up......plus loads of other specialist requirements mentioned by previous posters.

As I said before I think they are WUMs - for god sake Niallers got the conversation going by dobbing in a few of his mates! In fact I wouldnt be surprised if they are one and the same person.
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Is harming the country and holding the country to ransom and staging a wild cat strike the actions of a group of people with a "level head" and "the ability to weigh options up" to use your own words.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Niallers said:
Since he dealth with an ATC strike in the US in 1981. He gave them an ultimatum to go back to work within 48 hours or lose their job. He sacked 11,345 of them. No one group of people should be allowed to harm a country.

The air traffic controllers in this case are harming the country for their own greed.
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He also had a law to back him up in his decision as the workers were violating a federal law. The Government here can't just sack people for taking industrial action.

I am all for no strike clauses for essential services but we don't have them apart from the army and the guards.

Also the US had enough non-striking controllers, supervisors and military controllers to minimise the disruption. Ireland doesn't and it takes at least three years to train someone.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Firefly said:
I thought they stopped working in protest. Given their critical nature of their job and the risk to lives that you mention, is this engaging in the "appropriate and proper resolution process"?
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The protest is relating to the suspension of employees and the introduction of new technology.

Of course the employer claims it's related to the pay dispute, but officially this strike is over the suspension without pay.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Latrade said:
The protest is relating to the suspension of employees and the introduction of new technology.

Of course the employer claims it's related to the pay dispute, but officially this strike is over the suspension without pay.
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To be honest, I don't really buy that. They are co-operating with the new technology up the New Year and then suddenly stopped on the instructions of the Union. It has all the makings of a work to rule dispute. Whether you can suspend people for doing that is another matter but I don't think there is any doubt that it is related to their pay claim.
 
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