People who don't realise how good they have it: ATC Vs DAA dispute.

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I agree with everything umop3p!sdn is saying.

Many jobs require concentration throughout the day. Such as my own job.

Many jobs require continuous learning. Such as my own job.

It's called the normal working world.

What sickens me about this is they will probably get what they want.

This sort of nonsense is my main motivator for emigrating (in 6 months). Bye bye banana republic.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

We need an Irish version of Ronald Reagan.

Quote from August 3 1981

"But we cannot compare labor-management relations in the private sector with government. Government cannot close down the assembly line. It has to provide without interruption the protective services which are government's reason for being"

"It is for this reason that I must tell those who fail to report for duty this morning they are in violation of the law, and if they do not report for work within 48 hours, they have forfeited their jobs and will be terminated."
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

UFC said:
I agree with everything umop3p!sdn is saying.

Many jobs require concentration throughout the day. Such as my own job.

Many jobs require continuous learning. Such as my own job.

It's called the normal working world.

What sickens me about this is they will probably get what they want.

This sort of nonsense is my main motivator for emigrating (in 6 months). Bye bye banana republic.
Click to expand...

Its not a case of looking at a screen and concentrating. People seem to think that anyone can do the job if they are shown how. I am willing to bet that not one person that contributed to this thread would pass the recuitment process or even the vast majority of people on the site. It's not all about intelligence or ability. They have a rare skill set that is in demand.

Their pay and conditions are completely seperate to this anyway. I don't with what they are doing but I wouldn't belittle their work either. There have been numerous examples of ATC's being repsonsible for crashes and near misses. I have a stressful demanding job but nobody dies if I mess up (apart from me!)
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

The strike is ultimately to do with the fact that some employees state that the new technology will add some pressure to their daily working life.

Presumably they want more money to compensate for this added pressure (or maybe more days off or whatever)

I would say that if the figures for salary and time off as quoted on this thread are correct, then they are already more than adequately compensated for the pressure of the job

So yes, their pay and terms and conditions are very relevant
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Statement from IAA

[broken link removed]
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

UFC said:
I agree with everything umop3p!sdn is saying.

Many jobs require concentration throughout the day. Such as my own job.

.
Click to expand...

Yes, but there are not many jobs where a slip in concentration could result in the death of dozens of people.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I am willing to bet that not one person that contributed to this thread would pass the recuitment process or even the vast majority of people on the site. It's not all about intelligence or ability. They have a rare skill set that is in demand.
Click to expand...
How much are you willing to bet?
I've had jobs in the past that require extreme concentration, involving moving money around and updating live databases. Maybe no lives at stake, but certainly lots of money depending on whether or not I remembered to set a flag correctly, or I got a join correct. I didn't get anywhere near the perks of these people.
It sounds like you are judging everyone by your own standards.

UFC - lucky you! - where are you thinking of heading off to?
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

umop3p!sdn said:
How much are you willing to bet?
I've had jobs in the past that require extreme concentration, involving moving money around and updating live databases. Maybe no lives at stake....
Click to expand...

And there ends your whole argument. Under no circumstances can you compare your experience with the lives of thousands of people each and every day, each and every week, month, year, etc.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

UFC said:
I agree with everything umop3p!sdn is saying.

Many jobs require concentration throughout the day. Such as my own job.

Many jobs require continuous learning. Such as my own job.

It's called the normal working world.

What sickens me about this is they will probably get what they want.

This sort of nonsense is my main motivator for emigrating (in 6 months). Bye bye banana republic.
Click to expand...


this is just one example of what can go wrong if an ATC screws up. and he ended up paying the price with his own life.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Überlingen_mid-air_collision
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

liaconn said:
Yes, but there are not many jobs where a slip in concentration could result in the death of dozens of people.
Click to expand...


Bus driver, train driver, airplane driver, scaffolder, electrician, ferry driver.

There are lots of jobs. It's their job. It's what they get paid to do.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

umop3p!sdn said:
How much are you willing to bet?
I've had jobs in the past that require extreme concentration, involving moving money around and updating live databases. Maybe no lives at stake, but certainly lots of money depending on whether or not I remembered to set a flag correctly, or I got a join correct. I didn't get anywhere near the perks of these people.
It sounds like you are judging everyone by your own standards.

UFC - lucky you! - where are you thinking of heading off to?
Click to expand...

I work as a trader in investment banking. I deal in tens if not hundreds of millions of euro every single day. It can be highly stressful and demanding. I am educated to Masters level.

I work 50-70 hours a week and my basic pay is less than what they get paid. Do I have a problem with what they get paid? No. They like most people in this country are overpaid but thats not their fault.

Am I egotistical enough to believe I can do their job simply because I am used to pressure and stress. No.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Niallers said:
Bus driver, train driver, airplane driver, scaffolder, electrician, ferry driver.

There are lots of jobs. It's their job. It's what they get paid to do.
Click to expand...

...butcher, baker, candlestick maker...

Standard hours for pilot (or airplane driver):

8 hours in a 24 hr period, 30 hours in 7 days, 100 in a month and up to 1,000 hours in a calendar year.

Only 30 hrs a week! I do double that!
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Niallers said:
Bus driver, train driver, airplane driver, scaffolder, electrician, ferry driver.

There are lots of jobs. It's their job. It's what they get paid to do.
Click to expand...

'Airplane drivers' are extremely well paid.

The other jobs you mention don't require the same level of intense concentration and precision of thought as an Air Traffic Controller's.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I work as a trader in investment banking. I deal in tens if not hundreds of millions of euro every single day. It can be highly stressful and demanding. I am educated to Masters level.
Click to expand...
Do you have the luxury of fail-safes?

I work 50-70 hours a week and my basic pay is less than what they get paid. Do I have a problem with what they get paid? No. They like most people in this country are overpaid but thats not their fault.
Click to expand...
It's not difficult to get paid less than these air traffic controllers.
Do you get any other money in addition to your basic pay? - Have you also missed the point that these people are now holding the country to ransom for even more money?

Am I egotistical enough to believe I can do their job simply because I am used to pressure and stress. No.
Click to expand...
You can't do this job, so no one else on this thread can either? sounds pretty egotistical to me.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Does anyone know what the ATC's are paid in other countries with a similar cost of living? And is it standard international practice to give so many days off? I expect that it might be, given the nature of the job.

This should be a fairly good benchmark of expected salaries and benefits.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

QED said:
Does anyone know what the ATC's are paid in other countries with a similar cost of living? And is it standard international practice to give so many days off? I expect that it might be, given the nature of the job.

This should be a fairly good benchmark of expected salaries and benefits.
Click to expand...

I found this -

The typical salary for airport controllers with 10-15 years' experience is £60,000.

Source: [broken link removed]

If the exchange rate is 0.90 and Irish employees need 33% more for higher cost of living, the comparable irish salary should be approx €90k. Once again in this country, we seem to believe we are worth more and can pay ourselves more than other countries.

And the U.S. -

Median annual earnings of air traffic controllers in 2002 were $91,600. The middle 50 percent earned between $65,480 and $112,550. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $46,410, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $131,610.

Source: [broken link removed]
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

liaconn said:
'Airplane drivers' are extremely well paid.

The other jobs you mention don't require the same level of intense concentration and precision of thought as an Air Traffic Controller's.
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It's actually only the passenger airlines that pay very well. Other typres of airplane pilot/driver get paid fairly average wages.Especially now that airplanes are highly automated.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Well, if they're not passenger airlines then they're presumably not responsible for the safety of passengers.
 
Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

liaconn said:
Well, if they're not passenger airlines then they're presumably not responsible for the safety of passengers.
Click to expand...


And what is your point exactly?
 
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