People who don't realise how good they have it: ATC Vs DAA dispute.

[smiley]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

For all the hits the public service have taken, is there any public servant that would leave his/her permanent job for a similar job in the private sector in the current economic climate? Not likely...and rightly so, much too cushy and safe!

What sort of a post is this? Is there anybody is any job who would be stupid enough to leave it in this present climate?

There are some serious 'chip on shoulder' types and 'whingers' posting here at the moment.

 

[gunnerfitzy]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

What sort of a post is this? Is there anybody is any job who would be stupid enough to leave it in this present climate?

There are some serious 'chip on shoulder' types and 'whingers' posting here at the moment.

+1

Cowan, Lenihan & Co and their spin boys have done a great job pitting the the Civil/Public sector against the Private sector while not going near the postmen/ESB/ATCs/CIE because if these guys strike then the country WILL grind to a halt.

 

[bogle]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

For all the hits the public service have taken, is there any public servant that would leave his/her permanent job for a similar job in the private sector in the current economic climate? Not likely...and rightly so, much too cushy and safe!

Lots of the younger ones in my own work place have taken up the incentiveised career break scheme. They're off to top up their primary degrees with masters or postgrads. I doubt we'll see many of them back!

 

[Deiseblue]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I see that IAA management have now acknowledged that a bona fide dispute exists between them and Impact and that the Labour Court will now address all pay,pension and new technology matters.
Bit late in the day I would have thought.
An example of appalling management surely !

 

[brigade]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

That's just the start.
Public and civil servants need many more pay and job cuts so that Ireland can start to become competitive again. We need to try to close the private/public gulf that has opened up.

So how much of a paycut needs to be taken on top of whats already been taken?

 

[S.L.F]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

That's just the start.
Public and civil servants need many more pay and job cuts so that Ireland can start to become competitive again. We need to try to close the private/public gulf that has opened up.

ATC are not Public nor Civil Servants so why are you talking about them.

But since you have I'll try to get you to see a couple of the reasons why there is a difference.

1. Sex---in the public sector (semi states, Public and Civil service) people get the same wage regardless of whether they are men or women whereas women in the private sector get paid less than men.

2. Education---in the Public Sector (especially in the Civil service) the level of education (3rd level) tends to be far higher in the Public Sector.

both of these factors put a good few % onto the difference between the 2 sectors

I see that IAA management have now acknowledged that a bona fide dispute exists between them and Impact and that the Labour Court will now address all pay,pension and new technology matters.
Bit late in the day I would have thought.
An example of appalling management surely !

It was very strange for the management to suspend workers last week when a LRC was organised for next Tuesday.

So how much of a paycut needs to be taken on top of whats already been taken?

The paycuts that have taken place have nothing to do with the govt not being able to afford wages (bailing the banks out) or anything else, the reason the govt is cutting wages is so IBEC can drop wages in the Private sector and then chop the minimum wage

 

[brigade]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

The paycuts that have taken place have nothing to do with the govt not being able to afford wages (bailing the banks out) or anything else, the reason the govt is cutting wages is so IBEC can drop wages in the Private sector and then chop the minimum wage

I'm just wondering what level of paycuts umop3p!sdn would find acceptable.

 

[S.L.F]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I'm just wondering what level of paycuts umop3p!sdn would find acceptable.

The govt doesn't have the right to cut ATC wages.

It can suggest to the relevant authority what to do but doesn't have the power to enforce anything.

I thought this thread was about ATC not public or civil servants.

 

[gunnerfitzy]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I'm just wondering what level of paycuts umop3p!sdn would find acceptable.

Probably enough that will eliminate the need for tax increases that would effect ALL taxpayers. Why should everyone pay when we can scapegoat one particular sector?

 

[Birroc]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

What sort of a post is this? Is there anybody is any job who would be stupid enough to leave it in this present climate?

The point is that the gulf in public & private sector wages, pensions and conditions remains so large with the result that there is no movement out or into the public sector which is not healthy. All organisations need new blood but when you have a job where you cant be fired if permanent(almost), promotions are not based on merit but on length of service and pensions are very generous, it means nobody will ever leave and stagnation.

In the 1970s & 80s people working in the PS (councils in particular) were seen as having cushy jobs and safe jobs but there was a perception that most were badly paid jobs. Now, they still have the cushy, safe jobs but the perception is that they are also highly paid when the whole package is taken into account. I think thats where people have issues with.

 

[Lex Foutish]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

The point is that the gulf in public & private sector wages, pensions and conditions remains so large with the result that there is no movement out or into the public sector which is not healthy. All organisations need new blood but when you have a job where you cant be fired if permanent(almost), promotions are not based on merit but on length of service and pensions are very generous, it means nobody will ever leave and stagnation.

In the 1970s & 80s people working in the PS (councils in particular) were seen as having cushy jobs and safe jobs but there was a perception that most were badly paid jobs. Now, they still have the cushy, safe jobs but the perception is that they are also highly paid when the whole package is taken into account. I think thats where people have issues with.

I think a lot of people have a lot less issues about it since Public Servants had pay cuts totalling around 16% in the last year.

And, I thought the reason that there wasn't movement into the Public Service was a Government ordered jobs embargo..... Silly me!

 

[gunnerfitzy]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

The point is that the gulf in public & private sector wages, pensions and conditions remains so large with the result that there is no movement out or into the public sector which is not healthy. All organisations need new blood but when you have a job where you cant be fired if permanent(almost), promotions are not based on merit but on length of service and pensions are very generous, it means nobody will ever leave and stagnation.

In the 1970s & 80s people working in the PS (councils in particular) were seen as having cushy jobs and safe jobs but there was a perception that most were badly paid jobs. Now, they still have the cushy, safe jobs but the perception is that they are also highly paid when the whole package is taken into account. I think thats where people have issues with.

Good point.

However between the pension levy and recent pay cuts do members of the private sector believe that the perceived disparity has been addressed? I'm a public sector employee who is on around the national industrial wage and have been my pay reduced by about 12%. Should it be reduced further?

It is not my intention to start a witch-hunt on any sector but where is the semi-states contribution to restoring competiveness?

 

[liaconn]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

I was responding to a post where it was stated that prohibiting civil services from striking can't be done. I asked why could it not put to the people to vote - ie a constitutuinal change if necessary. I never mentioned anything about sorting out the whole problem

Oh yes, I can just imagine the impartial voting (not) from both public and private sector workers.

 

[liaconn]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

That's just the start.
Public and civil servants need many more pay and job cuts so that Ireland can start to become competitive again. We need to try to close the private/public gulf that has opened up.

Could you elaborate? Which particular areas and grades of the Public and Civil Service should be further cut (pay and numbers)? Everyone and every area or how would this be targetted?

 

[liaconn]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

For all the hits the public service have taken, is there any public servant that would leave his/her permanent job for a similar job in the private sector in the current economic climate? Not likely...and rightly so, much too cushy and safe!

Out of interest, did you ever apply for a public service job? And why does job security automatically imply that the jobs themselves are cushy?

 

[Purple]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

The paycuts that have taken place have nothing to do with the govt not being able to afford wages (bailing the banks out) or anything else, the reason the govt is cutting wages is so IBEC can drop wages in the Private sector and then chop the minimum wage

That's complete rubbish. For one thing most employers in the private sector are not in IBEC. You should also remember that wages were being cut in the private sector long before the government cut them for public servants.

 

[Purple]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

why does job security automatically imply that the jobs themselves are cushy?

Very good point.

 

[S.L.F]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

That's complete rubbish. For one thing most employers in the private sector are not in IBEC. You should also remember that wages were being cut in the private sector long before the government cut them for public servants.

I'm going to keep a note of this post so in a years time you can admit you were wrong (I'm setting the alarm on my phone as we speak).

 

[Birroc]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

And why does job security automatically imply that the jobs themselves are cushy?

Maybe you should ask that question to the 400,000 people on the dole.

 

[aonfocaleile]

Re: People who don't realise how good they have it

Maybe you should ask that question to the 400,000 people on the dole.

Why? Do you not understand the concept that having a secure job does not equate to having an easy job? Suggesting that the question be put to those on the dole or to anyone else won't change the answer. Your suggestion demonstrates that you are either trolling by posting such nonsense or that you need to get yourself a dictionary. The public sector bashing has abated since the budget, yet you seem intent on stirring it up again.

You also made a comment that no civil/public servant would be inclined to leave their secure jobs at the moment. Firstly, it is a misconception that all public service jobs are secure. People on temporary contracts which have expired have been let go from all parts of the public service. I accept that these are not the majority in many areas, but as you seem intent on making sweeping generalisations, I feel its necessary to remind you of this. Secondly, no one in a secure job in any sector would leave their job at the moment without careful consideration. Its not a public sector thing, its basic common sense.

To say that there is no movement in or out of the public sector is also not correct. Movement inwards is certainly limited at the moment but thats solely down to a recruitment embargo. There is plenty of job shedding going on through incentivised retirements and career breaks however. I suggest you base future posts on the facts rather than hearsay and lazy headlines, which is what you seem to be doing.