lisbon vote

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cleverclogs7

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Sorry not sure of place to post this.But would like some help in understanding the lisbon.without being judged ta very much.
treaty is not written in layman's terms.the irish constituation i understand.the lisbon treaty i do not.

Can someone please give me in layman's tears reasons to vote yes or no.or what will happen if the irish vote no again.And why the heck do we have to have another vote? Because dumb PEEPS LIKE MYSELF DIDNT UNDERSTAND IT THE FIRST TIME AROUND.COULDNT THE MONEY USED FOR THIS VOTE BE PUT TO SOMETHING MORE USEFULL INSTEAD.
 
You're a bit of a thicky aren't you?! The reason that you have to vote 'Yes' is because the government says so. Sorry, RTE also seem to have waded in on the 'Yes' side too so watch your telly and get with the programme. This time around fear will provide the 'right' outcome. Ireland has become a terrrible, horrible nanny state to which I'd only ever wish to bring my kids on very brief visits.

No one yet has reliably explained what part of the word 'No' Fianna Fail and the EU comission don't understand.
 
Ancutza said:
You're a bit of a thicky aren't you?! The reason that you have to vote 'Yes' is because the government says so. Sorry, RTE also seem to have waded in on the 'Yes' side too so watch your telly and get with the programme. This time around fear will provide the 'right' outcome. Ireland has become a terrrible, horrible nanny state to which I'd only ever wish to bring my kids on very brief visits.

No one yet has reliably explained what part of the word 'No' Fianna Fail and the EU comission don't understand.
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Interesting, where do you live now?
 
christ,pardon me for asking a question.Didnt the counrty get a NO vote because of lack of understanding.I wont be "PUSHED" AS YOU CALL IT,INTO SOMETHING I DONT FULLY COMPERHEND. A thicky as you call me i am not.But i would be thick if i voted for something i dont understand.Now,put that in your pipe and smoke it.Grrrrrrrr
 
What are main features of the Lisbon Treaty?

The Lisbon Treaty:
  • sets out the Union’s values – including respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights including the rights of minorities;
  • defines the EU’s competences more clearly than in previous Treaties and makes it clear that competences not explicitly conferred on the Union remain with the Member States;
  • gives legal effect to the Charter of Fundamental Rights and recognises the rights, freedoms and principles set out in the Charter;
  • will allow the EU to accede to the European Convention on Human Rights;
  • allows for a citizens’ initiative under which 1 million citizens from a number of Member States can petition the European Commission on issues falling within the EU’s competence;
  • expands the right of individuals to bring proceedings before the European Court of Justice in relation to acts of the Union;
  • gives a new role in EU affairs to national parliaments including the Oireachtas.
  • increases the powers of the European Parliament, which under Lisbon will have 751 members including 12 from Ireland. Under Lisbon, the European Parliament will legislate jointly on most EU issues with the Council of Ministers, where the Irish Government is represented alongside the governments of the other 26 EU Member States;
  • provides for the appointment of a President of the European Council who will hold office for a maximum period of 5 years and will chair four meetings of EU leaders each year;
  • allows for more decisions to be taken by the Council of Ministers on a new double majority basis, i.e. by at least 15 EU countries representing at least 65% of the Union’s population;
  • makes changes in the conduct of the Union’s external relations including by the appointment of a High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy;
  • gives citizens the right to deal with the EU institutions in any EU language including Irish;
  • makes a number of changes to the EU Treaties in respect of border checks, asylum and immigration, judicial cooperation in civil and criminal matters and police cooperation. Ireland is not bound by measures adopted in these areas, but can opt to be involved on a case-by-case basis;
  • gives the European Union some new competences in such areas as energy, humanitarian aid, tourism, sport, administrative cooperation and the participation by young people in the democratic life of Europe. Climate change is also a new political objective, given expression in the Treaty on foot of a proposal by Ireland."
  • Under an arrangement known as ‘enhanced cooperation’, the Treaty lays down the procedures for allowing a group of Member States to cooperate more deeply in certain areas of EU policy. This arrangement does not apply in the field of common foreign and security policy.
 
You're a bit of a thicky aren't you?!
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So sorry cleverclogs! I wasn't actually alluding to your intelligence quotient. I was trying to be ironic. Obviously I got it wrong and offended you which DEFO wasn't my intention. :( Contrite apologies.

Yes I live in Romania for the last 9 years.
 
cleverclogs7 said:
christ,pardon me for asking a question.Didnt the counrty get a NO vote because of lack of understanding.I wont be "PUSHED" AS YOU CALL IT,INTO SOMETHING I DONT FULLY COMPERHEND. A thicky as you call me i am not.But i would be thick if i voted for something i dont understand.Now,put that in your pipe and smoke it.Grrrrrrrr
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:confused:
 
In a nutshell.

The EU is not fully democratic and its institutions have little or no DIRECT democratic accountability. While the Lisbon Treaty shifts the deck chairs on the deck a bit and streamlines some processes to account for the EU now being bigger, it does not address the democratic deficit. It copperfastens some of the non-democratic principals and the existing principal of unequal representation in the EU Parliament - some EU citizens are valued more than others. These are the reasons I am voting No.

What will happen if it is rejected?

Not a lot - EU will continue in its current format. Probably not expand anymore until they come up with a replacement - this is more of a political decision than anything else - EU can expand in its current format, but the current EU members do not want the new members to be involved in the reorganisation.

As a democratic country, Ireland's should always take a strong pro-democratic stance. Its a shame that our leaders dont do so.

On thing that is never mentioned in debates is that if we vote yes, we can vote again in the future to remove the references to the treaty from our Constitution and it is perfectly legal for us to do so. But this would be very difficult from a political point of view.
 
it's the unequal representation reason that I will vote NO again in the next referendum...plus the fact that the treaty is so complicated that any decisions made on it will be held up in the european courts each time, so i can't see how it will make life easier for the bureaucrats at all...plus the fact that if we vote yes, ireland will never ever be in this position of power ever again in the future...why give it away?!!!...plus the fact that the government here decided to ignore a valid democratic 'no' vote the last time...i wish people weren't scared into voting yes just for the sake of it...
 
I am voting yes. We dont have any "position of power", what do you meam by that?
 
cleverclogs7 said:
christ,pardon me for asking a question.Didnt the counrty get a NO vote because of lack of understanding.I wont be "PUSHED" AS YOU CALL IT,INTO SOMETHING I DONT FULLY COMPERHEND. A thicky as you call me i am not.But i would be thick if i voted for something i dont understand.Now,put that in your pipe and smoke it.Grrrrrrrr
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There seems to be a severe sense of humour loss on this board lately. This is the second time in the last couple of days that someone has been attacked for saying something that was meant as irony.
 
liaconn said:
There seems to be a severe sense of humour loss on this board lately. This is the second time in the last couple of days that someone has been attacked for saying something that was meant as irony.
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I agree; it's only the internet; relax!
 
Well no hard feelings. I don't really feel attacked and sometimes how things that are written are not read as they should be understood if you get my drift. I apologise profusely again if I offended.

Anyway, 1st time around I didn't vote although I thought the the Lisbon treaty was undesirable. Second time around I really would be happy to spend the money for a flight and vote 'No'.

This time around what's got my goat is the blatant flaunting of the peoples democratically expressed will. Nothing has changed (except for the fact that RTE appear to have been leaned-on) so why do we have to vote again???

Democracy means you don't always get the outcome you desire. Explain that to the Cowen and the other Eurocrats.
 
Voted yes the last time, voting no this time. Whatever it takes to collapse this government.
 
room305 said:
Voted yes the last time, voting no this time. Whatever it takes to collapse this government.
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do you really think any other crowd will do any better?

They are all the same. Easy to say you'll fix things when not in power, but very hard to do it when you are since you're an easy target.

I think the Lisbon vote will get passed easily this time around, simply because many are afraid to vote 'no'. The country is banjax'd and they will be told that if we want to improve the country, jobs, wealth, future etc they must vote 'yes', and they will.
 
Voting no

Sure we'd all be conscripted to a European army by now if we voted yes last time! :eek:

Or at least that's one of the arguements I was told last time.... :rolleyes:
 
RMCF said:
do you really think any other crowd will do any better?
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I don't know if the "other crowd" will do any better but if you don't punish politicians for incompetence and corruption, then don't expect them to stop being incompetent and corrupt.

There is also the more immediate issue of NAMA. The only realistic prospect of blocking it is to get the current government thrown out and for a general election to be called. A second no vote to Lisbon will probably sufficient to topple Cowan and I doubt even Fianna Fail would elect a second leader with no mandate.
 
RMCF said:
do you really think any other crowd will do any better?

They are all the same. Easy to say you'll fix things when not in power, but very hard to do it when you are since you're an easy target.
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I believe Coco the clown would be a better leader than the one we currently have.

They are not all the same this is something FF spin docs have been having us say for years the other one is "Aw sure who else is there".

I really wish FG would move Enda out of the leadership and move someone else in.

I'll be voting "NO" again I just don't trust them to do what's right for us.
 
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