HSE Hire Ban removal?

[television]

Why the defensive attitude that talk of efficiencies only apply to front line staff?
I have repeated many times here that the first think that is needed is good management.

I'd take the protestations of front line staff seriously if nurses were not looking for an even shorter working week, if the standard working week was 39 hours, if annual leave was set at the statutory minimum and absentee levels in the HSE were not the highest in the country.

 

[bullbars]

Recent industrial action by IMPACT was about staff cut backs. not for the increase in pay. It is because most of these union members are seeing sever cuts on the ground that is effecting patients.

Exactly, streamlining to ensure the tax payer is getting value for money. Again having to force the issue because of continued incompetance.

The vast majority of people who are empolyed as health professionals do so because of a sence of vocation. they get into health care because they care about people, about making sick people better, because they want to give back to society, its not for money or to get cosy state jobs.

Health care proffessionals spin the line of caring about patients as indirect bribery and nothing more. They know full well the emotional imapct it has on the public perception and know that a minister for health has a very delicate situation to handle. Its a spin constantly played out and contradicts their own "We really care about the patients front".

There is exteme flustration that there is cuts to front line services. And by the way the last industriakl action undertaken by IMPACT was done during lunch time.

Cut backs to the most in-efficient section first it seems. Unfortunate it had to be forced on them but they had given no other option.

What do you expect? Cosy state jobs is what it now has become. Work ethos is non-existent. Any increase in work load is met with rumblings and union statements. Its about money and the irresponsible spending. In all walks of life budgets are set and if not adhered to, questions must be asked and solutions implemented. This didnt happen soon enough within out health care system and a line had to be drawn. Theres your budget make it work because the days of constantly funding an inefficient service are over.

 

[becky]

Why the defensive attitude that talk of efficiencies only apply to front line staff?
I have repeated many times here that the first think that is needed is good management.

I hope I didn't sound defensive because I don't mean to be.

 

[bullbars]

Yes I know but in lots of areas in the HSE, leave is planned, people cross cover, divert phones and work longer than contracted hours. I'm making the point that some solutions can't apply to the all areas in the HSE. The hosp reception open 12 hours a days 7 days a week need a certain amount of staff to cover all the shifts and I think expecting people to work extra for no money money all the time is a weak one no matter how much sense it makes.

I will accept that things are not as black and white when it comes to hospitals verses an office situation, but it has come to this due to a complete lack of adaptability or even a willingness to adapt to changing situations without downing tools and spending six weeks in negotiations. HSE management staff have had plenty of time to buck the trend but failed.

I work an average of 45 hours a week and do another 3 or 4 hrs at home. My contracted hours are 33 and no I don't look for extra money I'm happy with my salary and holidays (31 btw) but I do work hard for it.

I am in the exact situation but ask a public sector employee to do this, cue unions/strikes etc. This is where the private sector has finally become fed up with public sector workers, not just HSE staff.

 

[television]

Health care proffessionals spin the line of caring about patients as indirect bribery and nothing more. They know full well the emotional imapct it has on the public perception and know that a minister for health has a very delicate situation to handle. Its a spin constantly played out and contradicts their own "We really care about the patients front".

Or is it because they actually care about patients?? No never after all they are all lazy monsters who want to steal patients change and take tea breaks and complain. like all those people you know who actually work in the health services.

What do you expect? Cosy state jobs is what it now has become. Work ethos is non-existent. Any increase in work load is met with rumblings and union statements. Its about money and the irresponsible spending. In all walks of life budgets are set and if not adhered to, questions must be asked and solutions implemented. This didnt happen soon enough within out health care system and a line had to be drawn. Theres your budget make it work because the days of constantly funding an inefficient service are over

.

There is so much complete rubbish there I dont know where to start.

Work ethos non existant? Please

Just because some private sector management will exploit its workers if allowed does not mean this has to go on in the public sector.

Did you read the specifics about my post on budgets?

you have a serious ax to grind with public services.!!!!!

 

[Purple]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple
Why the defensive attitude that talk of efficiencies only apply to front line staff?
I have repeated many times here that the first think that is needed is good management.

Quote:
I'd take the protestations of front line staff seriously if nurses were not looking for an even shorter working week, if the standard working week was 39 hours, if annual leave was set at the statutory minimum and absentee levels in the HSE were not the highest in the country.

I asked you a question and you replied with two unrelated quotes. What gives?

 

[bullbars]

What?
There is so much complete rubbish there I dont know where to start.

Work ethos non existant? Please

Just because some private sector management will exploit its workers if allowed does not mean this has to go on in the public sector.

Did you read the specifics about my post on budgets?

you have a serious ax to grind with public services.!!!!!

They are straight forward statements. In-efficiency and continued irresponsible spending of public money leads have repercussions.

I do have an axe to grind; Public sector workers want to work less hours, get more holidays and are " caring for patients" whilst doing so in an in-efficient manner using tax payers money but still want the same pay as everyone else.

 

[Purple]

Just because some private sector management will exploit its workers if allowed does not mean this has to go on in the public sector.

Maybe this post says it all. In the private sector this "them and Us", "Workers and management" ethos is very rare and in the truly competitive sectors it is non-existent. Basically if I don't do my job properly and efficiently the people who work for me can’t pay their mortgage and if they don't work the same way I can't pay mine. There is no "them and us", we are all in the same boat. I hate when some bearded clown from a public sector union starts prattling on about "the workers" as if they were a bunch of half-wits who couldn't look after themselves and "Management" as if managers didn't work (and in many cases were promoted to their positions from the roles that they now manage). This is not a Dickens novel; it's 21st centaury Ireland with all the laws and safeguards that go with it.

 

[television]

I will accept that things are not as black and white when it comes to hospitals verses an office situation, but it has come to this due to a complete lack of adaptability or even a willingness to adapt to changing situations without downing tools and spending six weeks in negotiations. HSE management staff have had plenty of time to buck the trend but failed.

I am in the exact situation but ask a public sector employee to do this, cue unions/strikes etc. This is where the private sector has finally become fed up with public sector workers, not just HSE staff.

Why should people work for nothing? Why is this acceptable or lauded? Why is it that workers in the private sector think its okay to work for nothing? have private sector workers been that brainwashed into believing that that kind of practice is accpetable?? Absolutly unbelievable.

It is never okay for people to work for nothing. Its called exploitation.

 

[becky]

I am in the exact situation but ask a public sector employee to do this, cue unions/strikes etc. This is where the private sector has finally become fed up with public sector workers, not just HSE staff.

I am a public sector worker, the HSE in fact.

 

[Purple]

Why should people work for nothing? Why is this acceptable or lauded? Why is it that workers in the private sector think its okay to work for nothing? have private sector workers been that brainwashed into believing that that kind of practice is accpetable?? Absolutly unbelievable.

It is never okay for people to work for nothing. Its called exploitation.

They do not work for nothing; they do so because they see that it is necessary for their own medium term job security, as their employer will not survive in a competitive market if the work does not get done.
By the same token when times are good the same people should see the financial reward.
The problem with the public sector is that it is more likely to be a disconnect between how well/hard you work and how secure your job is and how well you get paid.

 

[television]

Maybe this post says it all. In the private sector this "them and Us", "Workers and management" ethos is very rare and in the truly competitive sectors it is non-existent. Basically if I don't do my job properly and efficiently the people who work for me can’t pay their mortgage and if they don't work the same way I can't pay mine. There is no "them and us", we are all in the same boat. I hate when some bearded clown from a public sector union starts prattling on about "the workers" as if they were a bunch of half-wits who couldn't look after themselves and "Management" as if managers didn't work (and in many cases were promoted to their positions from the roles that they now manage). This is not a Dickens novel; it's 21st centaury Ireland with all the laws and safeguards that go with it.

If you think there is no exploitation of workers in 21st century ireland you are being extremely nieve.

Union leaders are there to try to defend workers rights. You forget that all thouse safeguards you talk about were put into place by UNION action and lobbying and negotiation. Even in the most compeditive sectors as you call them will up and leave if there is a global downturn in the global economy and will thry to brainwash workers in India into working for nothing they and will not give a dam about irish workers. Remember workers in the private sector in ireland the following rules apply

1. the public sector is bad an efficent hate them.
2. UNions=the devil
3. You must working for nothing because this is being compeditive.

The happy family relationship you talk about between workers and owners is completly ridiculous.

 

[bullbars]

I am a public sector worker, the HSE in fact.

For a public sector employee that is admirable. You're one of few. please try and influence more staff around you.

 

[television]

They do not work for nothing; they do so because they see that it is necessary for their own medium term job security, as their employer will not survive in a competitive market if the work does not get done.

leaves a lot of room open for exploitation if you ask me. And sorry if you get paid 10 E and hour and you work 50 hours you should get paid 500E if that is your contract. Responcible and effective employers will factor this into account when setting prices etc.

 

[bullbars]

Why should people work for nothing? Why is this acceptable or lauded? Why is it that workers in the private sector think its okay to work for nothing? have private sector workers been that brainwashed into believing that that kind of practice is accpetable?? Absolutly unbelievable.

It is never okay for people to work for nothing. Its called exploitation.

Never said anything about working for nothing. nobody works for nothing but the public sector see their employment as great service they are doing for the people. Its a job just like everyone else's. If you dont like it there is some one who will.
I get paid just like everyone else. When you work you get paid. When you work harderyou get paid more. If you want more work harder.

 

[Purple]

If you think there is no eploitation of workers in 21st century ireland you are being extremely nieve.

I suggested no such thing. BTW, the unions were bugger all use to the Turkish Gamma employees. Unions in Ireland are, to a large extent, political lobby groups who push around the government.

Union leaders are there to try to defend workers rights. You forget that all thouse safeguards you talk about were put into place by UNION action and lobbying and negotiation.

I am proud that members of my family were instramental in setting up the Irish Trade Union movement. They would be sickened if they saw what their life’s work had turned into.

Even in the most compeditive sectors as you call them if there is a global downturn they will up and leave and will not give a dam about irish workers.

What are you talking about? Most Irish employees working in the most competitive sectors are working for small to medium sized Irish companies. Where are they going to go?

SO the happy family relationship you talk about between workers and owners is completly ridiculous.

It may not fit in with your outmoded political ideology but the facts are that employers and employees in most companies in Ireland have the same worries and the same financial pressures. The only fat cats that I see living off the sweat of the average “worker” are the ones earning six figure salaries while looking out of the offices with thick piled carpets at the top of liberty hall.

 

[television]

They are straight forward statements. In-efficiency and continued irresponsible spending of public money leads have repercussions.

I do have an axe to grind; Public sector workers want to work less hours, get more holidays and are " caring for patients" whilst doing so in an in-efficient manner using tax payers money but still want the same pay as everyone else.

But you think its okay to make these wild generalsied statements about ALL the public sector.

 

[bullbars]

leaves a lot of room open for exploitation if you ask me. And sorry if you get paid 10 E and hour and you work 50 hours you should get paid 500E if that is your contract. Responcible and effective employers will factor this into account when setting prices etc.

Where people are paid per hour is the greatest source of in-efficiency. In both public and private sectors this is abused. If an employee turns up for work and clock in at 8:00 am and clock out at 7:00 pm, but yet only does 4 hours productive work the other hours are a direct loss and unrecoverable. Where agreed set salaries are in place the hours can be recouped and production maintained.

 

[Purple]

QUOTE=television;648208]leaves a lot of room open for exploitation if you ask me. And sorry if you get paid 10 E and hour and you work 50 hours you should get paid 500E if that is your contract. Responcible and effective employers will factor this into account when setting prices etc.[/QUOTE] Do you think that employees are chained to their desk/ work station? Do you realise that indentured slavery/ serfdom is illegal?

If you take a job on the grounds that “you get 40K a year, your hours are 8.30 to 5.00 but you will have to do about 5-10 hours a week overtime. That’s included in the 40K. Is that alright?” and you say “yes”, how on earth is that exploitation?
How about “times are hard, you will have to work a few extra hours but when things get better we’ll be back to the profit share bonuses. Is that OK?” Is that exploitation?

 

[television]

I suggested no such thing. BTW, the unions were bugger all use to the Turkish Gamma employees. Unions in Ireland are, to a large extent, political lobby groups who push around the government.

I am proud that members of my family were instramental in setting up the Irish Trade Union movement. They would be sickened if they saw what their life’s work had turned into.

Im glad we admit that effective unions protect the rights of workers.

What are you talking about? Most Irish employees working in the most competitive sectors are working for small to medium sized Irish companies. Where are they going to go?It may not fit in with your outmoded political ideology but the facts are that employers and employees in most companies in Ireland have the same worries and the same financial pressures. The only fat cats that I see living off the sweat of the average “worker” are the ones earning six figure salaries while looking out of the offices with thick piled carpets at the top of liberty hall.

Listen there is not some symboitic harmonious relationship between employers and employees for most workers especially low paid ones. Bottom lines are as relivent now as they ever were. So please tell that to the guy working in Dunnes for 10 Euros an hour that. Or the guy working in a hard wearshop for a pitence that the employer cares and his needs are the same as the employees and we all need to work together for each other.

If it is outmoded political ideolgy that workers should be paid fairly. then im outmoded.

If it is outmoded that workers need to have a collective voice and show unity I am ooutmoded.

If it is outmoded to suggest that some empyoyers will use the "need for compeditiveness retoric" to exploit their workers and workers should resist this collectively, than i am outmoded.